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Abstraction · 61-69, M
Sweden is NOT SOCIALIST.
Does the government control the means of production? No. It's not socialist.
I'm a bit tired of the American obfuscation of the term socialism for everything that isn't in the Republican Party platform.
It's a social democracy. I know it's a bit confusing for many because it has the word 'social' in it.
Does the government control the means of production? No. It's not socialist.
I'm a bit tired of the American obfuscation of the term socialism for everything that isn't in the Republican Party platform.
It's a social democracy. I know it's a bit confusing for many because it has the word 'social' in it.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Abstraction There is a reason why socialism is in quotes.
Abstraction · 61-69, M
@QuixoticSoul Yes, I gathered that. I wasn't referring to carazaa, I know her position - just those who are passing.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Abstraction 👍️
Carazaa · F
@Abstraction Agree! We use the word “ socialism” because our dear president was using that term!
Carazaa · F
@Abstraction
Why dont Americans pay for their police? Because that would be capitalistic! America is communistic because the government pays for police! Why pay for the police and NOT healthcare and education? Why is that not also capitalism? Why do people say where is the money coming from? This is one of the wealthiest countries and they can’t afford what other countries do?
Why dont Americans pay for their police? Because that would be capitalistic! America is communistic because the government pays for police! Why pay for the police and NOT healthcare and education? Why is that not also capitalism? Why do people say where is the money coming from? This is one of the wealthiest countries and they can’t afford what other countries do?
Carazaa · F
@Abstraction it’s sad!
Carazaa · F
@Abstraction why?
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
@QuixoticSoul Capitalism should be in quotes too.
Carazaa · F
@ninalanyon why?
Abstraction · 61-69, M
@ninalanyon Capitalism is alive and well. Big shareholders are getting the best slice of the world's wealth. It's true in USA, my country Australia and Sweden. Sweden has its own model but it's essentially capitalism.
The problem is that capitalism has overpowered democracy. Our single vote every few years does not speak as loudly as capitalism's lobby groups and their ex-staffers who sit on committees that decide on our country's future for the benefit of mostly those corporations and their shareholders. This is where Trump's promise to drain the swamp has failed: he's continued to help them drain the nation's wealth into the hands of the top 5%. That's a matter of record.
The problem is that capitalism has overpowered democracy. Our single vote every few years does not speak as loudly as capitalism's lobby groups and their ex-staffers who sit on committees that decide on our country's future for the benefit of mostly those corporations and their shareholders. This is where Trump's promise to drain the swamp has failed: he's continued to help them drain the nation's wealth into the hands of the top 5%. That's a matter of record.
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
@Carazaa Because like 'socialism', 'capitalism' is usually not a good label for the thing mentioned. For instance according to Wikipedia capitalism is summarized as:
[quote]Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system and competitive markets.[/quote] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
But most markets that actually matter are not seriously competitive (the big four supermarket chains in the UK have 80% of the market), and if you are poor there really isn't that much in the way of voluntary exchange (work or go without, buy on instalments because you never have a large enough amount of money at one time). And can it really be pretended that companies whose principal customer is the state are really in private ownership (defence manufacturers in the wealthiest countries like the US, UK, France)?
[quote]Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system and competitive markets.[/quote] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
But most markets that actually matter are not seriously competitive (the big four supermarket chains in the UK have 80% of the market), and if you are poor there really isn't that much in the way of voluntary exchange (work or go without, buy on instalments because you never have a large enough amount of money at one time). And can it really be pretended that companies whose principal customer is the state are really in private ownership (defence manufacturers in the wealthiest countries like the US, UK, France)?
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
@Abstraction [quote]Big shareholders are getting the best slice of the world's wealth. ... The problem is that capitalism has overpowered democracy. Our single vote every few years does not speak as loudly as capitalism's lobby groups and their ex-staffers who sit on committees that decide on our country's future for the benefit of mostly those corporations and their shareholders.[/quote]
Sounds more like oligarchy than capitalism to me. Or that oligarchy is the natural result of capitalism.
Sounds more like oligarchy than capitalism to me. Or that oligarchy is the natural result of capitalism.
Abstraction · 61-69, M
@ninalanyon I think when you balance the Markets, Government and Civil Society you end up with a good result. Capitalism works, democracy works.
Currently the markets hold too much sway in my country of Australia - with so many key decisions influenced by lobby groups from key industries. A relatively small donation (in light of their profits) to both major parties is sufficient to get a lot of influence. Civil society voices are being shut down or dog whistled by politicians, particularly if they criticise government policy.
Currently the markets hold too much sway in my country of Australia - with so many key decisions influenced by lobby groups from key industries. A relatively small donation (in light of their profits) to both major parties is sufficient to get a lot of influence. Civil society voices are being shut down or dog whistled by politicians, particularly if they criticise government policy.