Who do you want to win the UK labour leadership contest

Yeah, I just think my vision of brexit is different to Corbyn’s. I see the EU as a barrier to global free trade; Corbyn is more anti-market pro-protectionism. @LukeTheDuke

@MrMonnyPenny But Corbyn will be gone very soon. Will labour always be unpalatable to you, even with a new leader?

@LukeTheDuke yes, because I’ve lost almost all faith in interventionism improving people’s lives in the long term. But don’t think that makes me a fan of the tories.

I think the biggest problems facing us today, that of money and banking, isn’t addressed by any of the major parties.

@MrMonnyPenny ok. What about labour do you find unpalatable?

@LukeTheDuke I believe they have good intentions but not everything that sounds nice has good results.

There’s a book I really recommend called “vision of the anointed- self congratulation as a basis for social policy” by Thomas Sowell that really destroyed my faith in government intervention and made me skeptical of these movement's

I also support brexit, and I think they fall on the opposite side of that debate.

@Burnley123 Labour didn’t even win after austerity, the bedroom tax, benefit cap, universal credit, , hospital closures and much else. The size of the mountain ahead cannot be over-estimated.

@LukeTheDuke It can't. The things we have to get over are TINA and Brexit.
TINA (there is no alternative) is the ingrained part of the post-Thatcher consensus that is deep in the Psyche. However, its fading over time and this crisis will make it fade further, I hope.

Like I say these are not normal political times. The government is having to do massive state spending and is also handling the crisis badly. I don't wish them to handle it badly because the consequences are so grave but one upshot is that it could bring down the government.

Who knows? Nothing like this has ever happened before so predicting things is tough.

I think Starmer is the wrong choice because he lacks imagination and political courage. He is a good politician for business as usual times but this is not business as usual.

I think he will win though because most people voted before the crisis.

@Burnley123 I can’t really detect the evidence for the erosion of the Thatcherite consensus. From my observation the consumerism, greed, anti-migrant sentiment and selfishness in society appears to have hardened rather than softened. The anti-migrant sentiment is a particularly complex issue for labour - many of the red wall voters will not return if they believe labour supports a return to freedom of movement (which is Starmer’s stated position) or if labour won’t talk tough on immigration (which all of the candidates have said is not their type of politics).

In terms of these not being normal times, this may actually play in favour of Boris. Whereas Brexit was divisive, this crisis is so far having a unifying effect on the nation (for instance the nationwide applause for NHS workers 2 days ago). Also the 80% support for employed and self-employed has gone down very well. Even if things do become drastically worse, it will just bring down Boris rather than the whole government; after all the Tories are the masters of sacrificing a leader to save the party.

I also never underestimate Labour’s ability to tear itself apart. The gulf between the membership and the PLP is still as wide as ever, and I can’t see an easy reconciliation in sight. Also the left and the right of the PLP have both vowed to fight for the ‘soul of the party’. Also, the fault line between women and trans women is already developing into the next big crisis and that’s even before the antisemitism one has died down.

Added to all these domestic challenges, the crisis in centre-left politics across Europe just adds to my pessimism.

@Mamapolo2016 the voting ends this week.