I Like Politics

@Kwek00 I know it's a long-winded process but what you're watching is a country having to redefine it's relationships with all those institutions it's allowed to walk all over it for the last 50 years.

The additional videos show how we got where we are.
How Johnson came to lead the country and why his decisions may not be as 'honourable' as perhaps they should be.

Since the end result of this seems likely to alter relationships all over i just thought it would be an idea if anybody interested could see how we got here.

@Picklebobble2 I think at the moment, our politicians are super happy with the situation over there. Because the news is full of Brexit, and it conveniently covers up that there is a good possibility that we'll break the 540+ days record on making a coalition for governement. So as long as your soap continues, no one except for professors and economist, cares what bad stuff is going on here. And it's pretty bad, because back in the 540+ days drama, we at least had our regional governements in place... which at the moment, aren't really excisting either 🤷‍♂️. Chances of forming those are still higher then the national governement though.

@Kwek00 What is day to day life like where you are ?

@Picklebobble2 ? I don't get the question, or where you are going too? I'm guessing not that diffrent as it is over there. Except that we have better food, beer and chocolats. 😅

Oh yeah, our pubs don't close around 11.
And we have less rain... because you guys soak up most of it 😅

@Picklebobble2 Guess governement just officially fell over. Another month full of demagoguery and promises! That's not how life is over here at the moment, but it could be in januari 2020

@Picklebobble2 I just went to bed last night... but apperently their wont be an ellection either when I woke up. So the governement can't function and has a minority, but the opposition doesn't want to go to elections either. You got to love it when a democratic-system just breaks down because no one has a clue what to do annymore. Durin the 30s and in Roman-times they allowed dictators to solve the problems... with the hope that they would revive democracy when things were solved. That didn't always work out of course. 😅

@Kwek00 That, of course is the danger. Daft as Boris may be you can't help but feel somebody far worse with more extreme ideas is just waiting in the wings.

@Picklebobble2 I told you in another post... it's not "weird" to have democracies break down about sensitive toppics. It happened in the past, it's happening now, and it will happen again. It's part of the system, it's far from ideal.

When it happens, it's the sovereign that decides when this moment of exception (in which no sollution in the constitutional framework can be reached). When Boris asked to cut parlement, and I'm far from a Boris fan, I actually thought it was a smart move. And how I look at the situation (with the small information that I have) I think Corbyn should have run with it. Because Corbyn seems to be more intrested at the moment on crushing the conservative party then on actually solving the problem. I think it's quite disgusting.

I also wonder (because I've been looking it up) if there is annyone in the EU that is actually willing to grant another few months to solve this mess. Because their workings are also "on hold" because of the UKs' internal political problems. Everyone over there seems to be super sure that the EU will just grant this, just like there is a portion over there that believed the EU should just grant what ever the UK wished to have in their deal. It's as if the EU should just agree with everything what is going on there. If the EU however doesn't grant it, the politicians over there can just scapegoat the EU even more for a situation they themselves helped to create. It's pretty cwazy.

@Kwek00 I find it interesting how the E:U has gone from Merkle's (2016) "If they're going to go they need to go quickly !" to Barnier's "Of course ! Anything the E:U can facilitate with..." inside four years !

If you could see a way forward it might make sense to extend negotiations but the simple fact is neither the public nor the politicians have changed their view !

So it seems we're stuck in this constant loop of clueless politician vs fed up electorate !

I think the only way for this issue to even stand a chance of being sorted out is if there is a joint declaration from Parliament that they could agree on and present that to the E:U with the electorate feeling happy that those who drafted it did so with them in mind before party politics.

I suspect that might be a Remain decision but would probably need agreement from the E:U stating that they understand ALL the issues and rather than have them bleat on about 'closer economic and political ties' maybe change the tune a little so it sounds more INCLUSIVE than EXclusive.

Because i don't think Brits. buy the EXCLUSIVE stuff anymore.

@Picklebobble2
Well... according to EU rules you have a periode of the time in which the procedure is running. The EU memberstates have their own problems too, as you suggested in another post, the entire financial Euro construction ain't healthy what so ever, and there are other problems. So spending years on having one memberstate leaving isn't good for the EU situation. Another thing is that the EU is a scapegoat for local politicians, that often point for internal problems towards the EU because the public doesn't understand the EU in depth. So it's easy to scapegoat what you don't understand. Now those politicians can also scapegoat the UK, by moving the field of interest from problems that should be helped internally to something that actually ain't important to the local situation but gives a perception that it's what causes problems in the EU construction. This is all pretty bad for a democracy, so it would be a lot better if the UK had just packed and left. Not that I want them out, but the dice were rolled when the referendum was held.

I don't see how you get out of this in annyway. If the UK decides to stay inside the EU, the EU can't do annything about it. They just need to accept it because of their own rules. The UK is already polarised on this toppic, so internally I don't think it's a good descision, I believe for the well being of UKs sanity that you just need to get out.

I'm not sure how UKs public thinks in general about this, I'm not a mindreader. But this "we are on top of the world"-thing that lives in certain nostalgic UK mebers, contributed a lot to this mess. I don't see how that suddenly went away, things like that don't go away that quickly.



EDIT: This fascinates me too btw... immensly. But it's really dangerous. If emotions run high, these are the kinds of disputes that can turn a country violent.

@Kwek00 At the start of this i just thought it was a case of 'old money stakeholders' complaining that 'things aren't like they used to be'. But the longer this has gone on the more dangerous i think it sounds.

I don't even think this is even about 'ideologies' anymore.
I think that many Brits. woke up to the fact that their 'influence' in the 'old institutions' was slowly being 'eroded' in favour of 'new ideals' promoted by Germany and France, and that appealed to the 'smaller stakeholders' who perhaps were 'shut-out' of the 'potential' economic success the new E:U was promising.

But. I fear in the E:U's attempts at 'being all inclusive' and encouraging the smaller 'stakeholders'to invest more and access more of certain budgets and E:U 'help', all they've done is set the clock ticking on the E:U's inevitable collapse under the weight of 'smaller stakeholders' undisclosed national debts.

And like all banks, all it needs is a period of prolonged recession leading to depression and that will see one country 'in hock' to another !
In recent times Ireland has had problems as has Italy as has Greece and if countries of that size have had troubles one can only imagine what might be happening in places like Slovakia; Latvia; Hungary etc.

@Picklebobble2 The problems of national debt, have more to do with the Eurozone then the EU by itself. As long as you have a printing press and a national currency, these economic problems can be handled on a national basis. It's how the Euro works and how it's constructed that is the biggest problem there.

This debt, also didn't came from nowhere. Except for Greece (which is a bit of a special case) Italy, Ireland, Spain where doing fairly well before the Euro in terms of debt vs GDP. But during the banking crisis (which was a crisis of private enterprice, not of governement), these governements (just like manny others) "saved" the banks by taking in a lot of their problems and putting them on the national financial records. Which made their debt jump up drastically. And one of the big reasons why we did all that, is because letting the banks fail created an even more gloomy picture. If you are intrested in all that, I can only advice you to read "Mark Blyths'" book "Austerity". The first 3 chapters handle the banking crisis in the US and the Eurozone.

@Kwek00 there's a good argument to suggest that letting the banks fail and bailing out the customers would have been a better solution.

@Picklebobble2 I don't know enough of economy to say this is the case. But I do know that a lot of economists have serious issues with how the Euro has been handled.

I do personally find it disgusting, that "banks" created a lot of mess because of the way they made money... and when it all collapsed took verry little responsibilities and were bailed out by tax-money. And that after that the banks were bailed out by tax-money a lot of political figures pointed towards the national debt and said: "well, now it's time to cut expenses because our governement spend to much". While it was actually the private sector that fucked up. Not to mention that a lot of countries still have these toxic assets on their balance sheets, which feels like it are just huge black holes absorbing the money of those that pay taxes. That's all pretty disgusting to me.

10 years later (this year actually) in my own country, all the big bankers went "free" because our governement didn't take the time to sue them. If anny small private business pulled the crap the banks would have pulled, they would be in jail. But for some reason, when it comes to big banks this just isn't the case.

@Kwek00 That's because the world economy is shrinking. Economists know it. Banks know it.. Business knows it but governments refuse to acknowledge it !

Which is kinda where we came in on.

@Picklebobble2 How is the world economy shrinking? What's your source on that?

@Kwek00 America's productivity is at an all time low.
Nobody in Europe is screaming record growth or record investment are they ?
China has replaced America as productivity #1
And India is just waiting for somebody to stick a Ford or Volvo or DAF truck plant out there where production costs will be so low it'll make every other vehicle plant on the planet worry.

@Picklebobble2 So again... How is the world economy shrinking?

@Kwek00 Because nobody's buying ! Why do you think so many countries are using 'Quantative easing' as a way of keeping their economies afloat ?
Why do you think the high street is dying ? Because companies who only pay for warehousing don't have the outlay for stores; staff; heat; light.....

@Picklebobble2 I'm not sure about this, but I think we are confusing a lot of things right now 🤯. I need to hit the books for this one, but this reasoning doesn't make sense to me at the moment.

@Picklebobble2 I agree with a lot you say , but on line shopping is closing shops in high street so much cheaper

@Nyloncapes And the world economy is shrinking part?