so like. there are more empty homes than homeless people by far

@MartinTheFirst yes there is. we abolish land ownership. and if you don't like it, just be glad we're not taking the money you earned off people's desire to survive by charging rent, too. 🤷‍♀️

@clooo So you make one man unhappy through communism force, and another slightly less unhappy.

Your logic... it's flawed.

@clooo so everyone gets to live in the projects... living the dream. 😳

@MartinTheFirst "unhappy" lol, you still have a place to live (that you don't need to keep paying your mortgage on!), a whole house, you just can't use the other properties you "own" to make money off other people. boo hoo, how horrible. also, thinking going from being homeless to having a home as making someone "slightly less unhappy". that's what i'd call "flawed".

@clooo Doesn't matter, you feel cheated, you feel prisoned, someone just came over and stole something that was your rightful belonging. Innocent men, who almost have nothing, will lose everthing they have.

@easterniowegin yeah! with an enforced living minimum wage and a universal basic income for the unemployed!

@clooo you're just a communist troll

@MartinTheFirst "rightful belonging". yeah, no. that was inevitably land that was stolen from someone else. it doesn't belong to anyone, let alone you. also, and i can't stress this enough, the whole point is that *everyone still has a home*. nobody is getting "everything taken from them". that's melodramatic bullshit.

the fact that you think rich land owners are "innocent men who almost have nothing" is downright delusional. if you can afford to have multiple homes, *you are not in danger of any kind of financial ruin*.

@MartinTheFirst i'm unashamedly communist, but i promise i'm not a troll! i genuinely believe everything i'm saying.

@clooo Then I pity your lack of understanding for how economics work

@MartinTheFirst i could say the same to you, to be honest.

@clooo Could you though?

@clooo where, exactly...and when, has communism been successful?? In the history of the planet, when and where??

@MartinTheFirst i could. in truth i less pity you (because fuck pity, pity's rude), and more am just disappointed in your lack of good faith engagement with different ideas.

@clooo Do you know just how much of the market is actually based on real-estate? If you'd just give it out to fit the poor, then a bubble would burst that would send the entire country into flames.

@MartinTheFirst the government already created a real estate bubble, once...and apparently many didnt learn from it.

The government messes up EVERYTHING it touches...basically because too many within the government are corrupt. It will never change.

@easterniowegin name a single marxist state in the history of the world. oh, we haven't had one? yeah, that's right. we haven't. in fact, me and good old karl agree that the "communist" states that have existed weren't practising real communism, but rather "state capitalism". which i'd say is *worse* than the generic capitalist state.

@MartinTheFirst that's a problem with capitalism, not communism. don't project your system's crappy problems onto mine :)

@clooo However a society would not survive that change, don't you see?

Also communism, if you've read about it properly, is based on the assumption that people will act righteous and fairly by nature. However people are selfish by nature, and this is why communism fails every time.

@MartinTheFirst listen, my family grew up in a communist dictatorship. my great grandmother had half of her home taken away. my dad told me stories of going to vote, and his only choice being between multiple members of the communist party. it ended in a civil war and nato bombings that killed thousands. I understand the history and failure of past communist states. it is part of my familial and cultural history.

a bad implementation of a bastardisation of communism that resulted in horrors is not representative of what i, what leftists, want.

@MartinTheFirst ancom requires that assumption, which is why i don't identify with it.

i'm not stupid, i know that implementing communism would be very hard, and possibly impossible in the short term (for now, but with certain developments i do see that changing). that doesn't mean there aren't good ideas there. it doesn't mean it isn't worth discussing. I call myself a socialist, rather than a communist. because i am a realist, and socialism is achievable. communism, unfortunately, not so much right now.

@clooo "socialism is achievable" contradicts "because i am a realist"

@clooo The only difference between communism and socialism is that in communism, the state forces people to convert to socialism.

@MartinTheFirst okay i'm happy to have a debate with you but maybe go actually read what communism and socialism actually fucking are first because... wow

@MartinTheFirst "The state" forces people to do a lot of things. The question is what the state forces you to do. Arguably, all taxpayer-funded government programs, like the military, law enforcement, roads, public schools, etc. are socialistic.