"The Right To Choose...Unless You Don't Agree With Us!"

@Ryannnnnn Happens all the time. For example, Quakers are forced to pay taxes that fund the war machine, even though they are pacifists.

@windinhishair True, I think this case in particular is particularly bad though as a person shouldn't have to carry what they percieve as them killing a baby on their conscience.

@Ryannnnnn There is no doubt that it is a very difficult issue.

@windinhishair You are making a false comparison. I am talking about physical compulsion to commit murder...and your country does NOT require that of Quakers or anyone....except those of us who are against abortion?

@Abrienda Quakers are not exempted from paying taxes. Sorry. And yes, people do die in war funded directly by their taxes, so the comparison is valid.

If you go into the medical profession, in certain instances you may be required to perform a legal abortion. If you don't want to run the risk of being put in that position, you can pursue another career or medical specialty.

If you join the military, in certain instances you may be required to take the life of someone. If you don't want to run the risk of being in that position, you should not join the military, or take up one of their desk jobs.

@windinhishair I'M sorry, but I think you need to read more carefully...where did I say Quakers do not need to pay taxes? Are you answering my actual reply or making up the one from me you wish to answer? And no it is a false comparison its not as you cannot not DIRECTLY show the tax dollar paid went to the killing of anyone. That's called a causal link, FYI.

In fact yours is not just a false comparison. It's a fatuous one.

In any event you have missed the point again and are practicing evasion because you do not want to answer my question but your own. You want to do that, create your own thread. Otherwise you are just trolling. Again

@Abrienda I directly answered your question. If you don't want to provide legal medical services, you should not go into that profession, just as someone who doesn't want to kill as a member of our armed services shouldn't go into that profession.

@windinhishair You have heard of the Hippocratic Oath? THAT is what has protected us from people like you since Ancient Greece. It is as binding to those of us in medicine as a religious doctrine is to a Quaker.

However, speaking of religious doctrines, this would also force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions. Your snarky answer to that is what? If you are a Catholic don't become a nurse or a doctor?

I wonder if you can are open minded enough to step back and see what a totalitarian viewpoint you are taking on this issue? Or maybe you do which would then fit with your Leftist worldview.

@Abrienda We've discussed this subject on this very thread previously at length. I suggest you go back and read that exchange so we don't have to repeat it. I admit that it is a difficult issue, and one that I would like to be easier to solve, but there are conflicting rights and accommodations involved, as well as unintended consequences. The bottom line is that women have the right in the US to legal abortions, and reasonable religious objections (and this is one) should be accommodated as much as possible. In some cases they directly conflict, and that is the crux of the issue.

@windinhishair I do not believe there is a "right" to an abortion (or making me perform one) in your Constitution or Bill Of Rights. If so where might it be? The "right" to an abortion could be reversed tomorrow as it is the result of a Supreme Court decision...it is no more a "right" than it was the "right" of Southern slaves.

I see you are very much in favor of compulsion or exclusion for millions of professionals like myself...why is that?

And where is the "right" you have to make me violate the teaching of my religion? If you are looking for "right" I refer you to the First Amendment -

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXECRCISE THEREOF..." emphasis mine.

So if you can find a "right' to an abortion that supercedes your First Amendment, by all means do. Otherwise, as they say in tennis, game, set, match.

@Abrienda Again, we've covered this previously. The issue is what to be done when rights conflict with each other. You do not have an absolute right in exercising your religion any more than you have an absolute right to free speech. There are always limits. You still cannot yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater and claim the right to free speech absolves you from the consequences. We don't need to litigate this all over again--we've already done it. Scroll down.

Have a good evening.

@windinhishair So we fudemntally disagree. Such things do happen. Good night indeed.

@windinhishair We go ovr tis because you cannot see the basic logical flaw in your position thus you cannot move on to understanding the situation correctly. At root I suspect is your opposition to religion or religious exemeptions period. However I may be wrong so will I shall try one last time.

I am glad you used the "fire" in a theater analogy though I am not sure you realize the implications. This was to show that unlimited freedoms can cause injury or death. Agreed. But now you use it to compel me to kill. I won't accuse you of anything more than unintentional irony, but the right to exercise my freedom of religion is a Constitutional right; someone forcing me to perform an abortion is not as it violates the First Amendment. There is no "right" to have an abortion and yo cannot cite it. In fact my refusing to be part of an abortion causes harm to NO ONE - in this case far from it - unless you suddenly think the infanticidists at PP are going to experience a mass epiphany and stop the genocide of black America, for example. In which case it still doent remove the right enshrined in the First Amendment.

In any case, I have tried my best but as I suspect their is a core opposition to my position you have not or will not admit to.

Good evening to you.

I do not oppose religion. Far from it. I do oppose religious exemption for reasons I've already articulated. Unless those exemptions are limited, you open up the potential for people to be legally free to refuse service to or discriminate against blacks, or Muslims, or anyone else their religion opposes.

The right to a legal abortion has been upheld by the Supreme Court. Can it be taken away? Yes, if the Court so rules. But the right to a legal abortion exists at present. Your refusal to provide these services may not harm anyone in most cases, but when states are making it hard or impossible to obtain legal abortion services, and you are the only option, you DO harm others.

Your First Amendment right doesn't trump all other rights. It has limits. And it conflicts with a woman's right to choose. This is what the Court has to decide.

I would like to see abortion rare but available as an option, because I will not decide someone's reproductive rights. I would like to see you able to freely exercise your religion. But the solution isn't a simple one and, as pointed out, has problems of its own.

@windinhishair I never said abortion should not be available. I am asking for the right not to engage it. Nor is required I be made to as there are many practitioners of infanticide to choose from, if that is "inconvenient" for someone, that is life. My religious freedom is more important than her convenience.

In a society that truly respected "the right of a woman to choose" you would respect my right "as a woman" to not be "restricted" to only two choices: either engage in infanticide or seek another profession, as you so snarkily suggested I could do.

It is a pity for you that you lack the moral awareness to see the fascistic impulse behind such a suggestion, a pity but far from unusual on the left which is why people like yourself are the true advocates of totalitarianism in the world today.

Whether you wish to acknowledge that or not is irrelevant. It is as it is.

The real pity is your complete and utter inability to accept that your right to practice your religion as you see fit does not trump all other rights by all other people. It only highlights your lack of moral character. Not surprising, but sad nonetheless.

The reality is that in the vast majority of cases, your rights and the rights of a woman to have a safe, legal abortion can both be accommodated. Keep abortion legal and readily available, and there will be plenty of options that do not require you to compromise your personal religious beliefs.