"The Right To Choose...Unless You Don't Agree With Us!"

Planned Parenthood USA feels that the right to choose infanticide MUST include denying the rights of health care professionals (like myself btw) NOT choose to participate in abortions based on conscience or religious belief.

The right to choose for me, not for thee?

The American Civil Liberties Union has joined PP in its lawsuit against the Trump administration over its which guaranteeing the right to CHOOSE to those who do not wish to participate in infanticide.

Civil liberties in America for me, but not for thee?

If anyone is so dense as to continue to think the so-called "right to choice" is only about freedom to commit infanticide, think again. It is about the "right" to FORCE others to help enable it.

Planned Parenthood (what a joke for a title! You mean Planned NON-Parenthood) and the American Civil Liberties Union have taken a Fascist positon toward those who disagree with "a woman's right to choose" which I am sure the pro-infanticidists here will think is just fine, since they share the same Fascistic mentality.

And so...it is now another person's "human right" to make me perform an abortion, correct?

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windinhishair · 61-69, M

If you allow religious exemption in one situation, you will have to do it in others. Should southern Republicans have the right to refuse service to blacks and Hispanics because they don't believe in serving them meals or providing them accomodations? Should Quakers who believe in pacifism be exempted from paying taxes that are used for military spending? Many Quakers have a religious aversion to war and war planning. There are many examples.

Abrienda · 26-30, F

@windinhishair I am afraid that by your examples you have again not read the Question.

So you are okay with making a woman accept another woman's right to commit what she believes is murder ... but NOT accepting her right to not help her commit what she believes is murder?

windinhishair · 61-69, M

@Abrienda I made no representation of how I feel about the topic. I simply pointed out that there are many examples where people are forced to do things that they consider immoral. And if you exempt one person for their deep-held religious beliefs, do you then have to exempt other people on their deep-held beliefs on other issues?

Abrienda · 26-30, F

@windinhishair Yes...in re-examining your posts have made valid argument - ones I consider wrong but "valid" none the less.

So then ..you are saying because a woman has a moral "right" to an elective operation that I believe is infanticide and I must be forced against my moral and religious beliefs to perform in it, even though she can legally seek out other places that will accommodate her? That my religious freedom is less important than her inconvenience?

There in fact is no "right" to an abortion in America but there is one to freedom of religion from government interference or force. Are you in favor of doing away with that right? Just because it suits your world view?

So I am in favor of abortion being legal though I oppose it...are you in favor of my religious beliefs being suppressed and violated? You I am sure worry about the "psychic trauma" of a woman being "forced to have a child she doesn't want"...are you also concerned over my trauma in committing what I believe us murder? Because let's be clear - SOMETHING is being killed, and that something was the exact same state you were in at one time.

If so then tell me... who is the real liberal here?

windinhishair · 61-69, M

@Abrienda It isn't a liberal or conservative issue. It is a religious and moral issue, and there are valid arguments on both sides. It is obviously a difficult issue to address, or it would have been settled long ago. You raise a number of issues in your response, and I will respond to each one with some other thoughts to consider.

Accommodation is not always possible, even if it is in many or most cases, and exercising your right to not provide a service can force a woman to bear a child. This is the principle behind limiting the number of clinics in states, which would force some women to have their babies as they cannot afford to travel to the nearest clinic. Poor women may not be able to travel to clinics hundreds of miles away for a legal procedure. If legal abortion was widely available, your right to not provide service would be much less of an issue, and it is possible both of you could be accommodated.

You do have the right to seek and obtain a legal abortion in the US. You also have the right to practice your religion. But neither right is absolute. There are restrictions on both abortions and religions. For example, a devout Muslim cannot practice Sharia law, which conflicts with US law. Late term abortion is illegal in most cases, unless the mother's life is in danger.

I support your right to be able to practice your religion to the maximum extent practical, and I support a woman's right to choose and obtain a legal abortion. The two rights collide in cases where your denial of legal service in support of your religious beliefs would deprive a woman of her right to a legal medical procedure. I don't have all the answers, but I believe that if every woman who desires an abortion could obtain one from someone else, your religious beliefs could be accommodated as well. Ideally, neither one should supercede the other. But we live in a world of grey, not black and white.

There are other issues as well that I haven't touched on that I will throw out for consideration. Does your role of a medical professional and responsibility to healing others allow you to choose who to provide service to? If it extends to abortion, could it also extend to refusing service to the LGBQT community? To blacks and Hispanics? To Muslims? And if religious freedom is extended, as is happening now, how far does it extend? Could certain Muslim sects legally practice honor killings?

Just a few late afternoon thoughts on a difficult topic.

Abrienda · 26-30, F

@windinhishair I used liberal in the small 'l' sense of the word. And I appreciate your thoughtful, reasonable tone.