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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Quizzical Really? I despair when I talk to left-leaning people who think good is gonna come out of this.
If there was a possibility of a 'Lexit' my views would be different but there just isn't. Its a project of the nationalist right and a no deal Brexit would mean the economy tanks and an excuse for a new level of austerity.
If there was a possibility of a 'Lexit' my views would be different but there just isn't. Its a project of the nationalist right and a no deal Brexit would mean the economy tanks and an excuse for a new level of austerity.
Quizzical · 46-50, M
@Burnley123 We'll never know unless we try, and I'll never be convinced that Europe would ever have our best interests at heart... And really, why would they?
The EU's reaction to our desire to leave was the big clincher for me.
They've acted exactly like a controlling partner in an abusive relationship. If that doesn't set off alarm bells then I don't know what would... Threats and bullying are no way to convince someone to stay.
Of course, add the fact that no-one could give a definite answer as to how much money we send to Europe and what we get for it and that just screams of financial mismanagement. You wouldn't run a company like that.
And it's not just the UK that is unhappy with the way things are being run. There are rumblings of dissatisfaction all across Europe and I would not be surprised if other countries follow suit. They've pretended for a long time that everyone on the continent is one big happy family and that we're the fly in the ointment, but that's just not the case...
That's nothing fed to me through the media by the way, that's the opinion of normal, everyday people that I talk to while online. They are not members of any far-right groups, not activists, they are just people looking at the situation and not liking what they see.
The EU's reaction to our desire to leave was the big clincher for me.
They've acted exactly like a controlling partner in an abusive relationship. If that doesn't set off alarm bells then I don't know what would... Threats and bullying are no way to convince someone to stay.
Of course, add the fact that no-one could give a definite answer as to how much money we send to Europe and what we get for it and that just screams of financial mismanagement. You wouldn't run a company like that.
And it's not just the UK that is unhappy with the way things are being run. There are rumblings of dissatisfaction all across Europe and I would not be surprised if other countries follow suit. They've pretended for a long time that everyone on the continent is one big happy family and that we're the fly in the ointment, but that's just not the case...
That's nothing fed to me through the media by the way, that's the opinion of normal, everyday people that I talk to while online. They are not members of any far-right groups, not activists, they are just people looking at the situation and not liking what they see.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Quizzical I am a critic of the EU but Brexit is worse.
In negotiations, they have been a rational actor. They are not incentivised to give us a good exit deal because that would encourage others to leave. They argue, and not without reason, that Britain shouldn't get the benefits of membership at no cost. There are trade offs and a lot of the media in this country provides misinformation.
The problems that the EU has are largely down to the single currency and we are not a member of that. A no deal Brexit would be very bad.
In negotiations, they have been a rational actor. They are not incentivised to give us a good exit deal because that would encourage others to leave. They argue, and not without reason, that Britain shouldn't get the benefits of membership at no cost. There are trade offs and a lot of the media in this country provides misinformation.
The problems that the EU has are largely down to the single currency and we are not a member of that. A no deal Brexit would be very bad.
Quizzical · 46-50, M
@Burnley123 Well, it would have been a start sending skilled negotiators to the talks rather than that useless mare May...
As bad as Brexit 'might' possibly be, our nation has been through far worse, and perhaps a little adversity and austerity will not be such a terrible situation. It might once again teach us the value of things.
As bad as Brexit 'might' possibly be, our nation has been through far worse, and perhaps a little adversity and austerity will not be such a terrible situation. It might once again teach us the value of things.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Quizzical Brexit is meant to be beneficial, not about voluntary suffering for no obvious gain.
Whether May is a good negotiator or not (she isn't) the essential issue remains that the EU has five and a half times our economic power. They are our biggest market for both imports and exports too so inevitably have the upper hand in any trade negotiations. If they operate as a rational actor, then there is no way that Britain will be allowed to get a deal as good as remaining. Jeremy Corbyn would not ne able to get a much better deal and I say that as someone who has him on my Facebook wall.
A no deal Brexit would be a disaster. Our economy and and legal system are utterly interlinked and leaving with no deal would mean a major recession and long term destruction of some industries. I've read opinions by academic economics and economists because they are more reliable than government ones and there is nobody who can make a case that no deal won't be a massive hit. And for what gain?
Whether May is a good negotiator or not (she isn't) the essential issue remains that the EU has five and a half times our economic power. They are our biggest market for both imports and exports too so inevitably have the upper hand in any trade negotiations. If they operate as a rational actor, then there is no way that Britain will be allowed to get a deal as good as remaining. Jeremy Corbyn would not ne able to get a much better deal and I say that as someone who has him on my Facebook wall.
A no deal Brexit would be a disaster. Our economy and and legal system are utterly interlinked and leaving with no deal would mean a major recession and long term destruction of some industries. I've read opinions by academic economics and economists because they are more reliable than government ones and there is nobody who can make a case that no deal won't be a massive hit. And for what gain?
Quizzical · 46-50, M
@Burnley123 Well, that certainly is a problem... Perhaps we should NOT have interlinked ourselves so deeply with the EU in the first place.
Let's face it, it's done our economy no favours at all.
The gain? Self-determination and getting out of that European gravy train.
Let's face it, it's done our economy no favours at all.
The gain? Self-determination and getting out of that European gravy train.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Quizzical Problems with our economy stem from Thatcherism IMO. Its the Conservatives who closed down industries and favoured the city. In addition, it was their coalition who did austerity by choice. Things would probably be worse if it wasn't for the EU because it constrained some of their worst aspects. This is what Brexit is about, wanted to free 'us' from Europe so they can implement full free-market capitalism. It's why they talk about the Singapore model.