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British people, would you be more likely to vote Labour if it supported a second referendum on Brexit?

As a Labour member and supporter of the leadership, I've generally supported the line they have taken as a compromise position. They've tried to gain acceptance by Labour leavers by honouring the referendum and also tried to gain acceptance by remainers by offering a softer version of Brexit than the Tories.

This strategy worked in the 2017 General Election when we polled well, without quite winning the election. Times have changed though and both leavers and remainers have hardened their positions. Most leavers see nothing short of a no-deal Brexit as a betrayal of what they voted for, even though the leave campaign talked about negotiating a deal and even sometimes mentioned the Norway option. Most remain voters I know who are not Labour Party members see anything less than a second referendum as a betrayal by the Labour Party. I find this attitude frustrating - even as a remain voter myself - because if Labour is going to go against an existing referendum result and a third of its voters, it can't do so lightly. The Labour voting coalition is traditionally a diverse coalition which includes (for example) northern working-class people and liberal metropolitan young professionals.

This is what it is though and much as I'd like to talk about Jeremy Corbyn's social democratic policies, its Brexit which is on most people's minds. Judging by canvassing, its possible Labour will finish third in the European elections and underscore even their own poor polling (though the Tories will be fourth or fifth).

Please comment in as much detail as you like. I really can't be arsed dealing with people being rude though and please keep it relevant. I don't mind non-Brits joining this debate as long as you are not saying ridiculous things about globalist conspiracies or whatever.

Thanks
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WelshLovely · 46-50, F
I had high hopes for Jeremy Corbyn but I think by trying to please everyone, he's just come across as indecisive and wishy washy.

The referendum was an advisory one, so therefore not legally binding and I think Labour needs to set out its plans and stand by them, whichever way they go. They're not giving any of us much reason to support them apart from just relying on being an alternative to the Tory party who seem to have proved that they couldn't organise getting laid in a whorehouse and have pretty much no regard for the ordinary men and women in the country.
NankerPhelge · 61-69, M
@WelshLovely What all political parties need is a strong, solid leader who never deviates or seesaws an inch. That's the trouble with both May and Corbyn, they are both too bendy and shilly-shallying. Not solid enough.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@WelshLovely I'm a big Corbyn fan but your points are reasonable. I know that Wales voted Brexit. Do you think that the people there would still vote Labour if it supported a second ref?
WelshLovely · 46-50, F
@NankerPhelge We have the same issues with the labour leadership in Wales. The current first minister is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike, which is pushing more and more people to vote for Plaid Cymru who are the nationalist party, whether we actually want independence from Westminster or not.
TheThinker · 56-60, M
@WelshLovely Agreed, I was originally a huge Corbyn supporter (to the extent that I joined the party because of him), but as it's become apparent that he's actually a secret Leaver, and with his general evasiveness on the whole question, I've really lost faith in him and to some extent the whole party, and have been considering resigning my membership.

Not to mention the whole anti-semitism thing, which although at first I thought was an irrelevant phantom dredged up by the right-wing press (and Laura Kuenssberg), does actually appear to have at least SOME truth behind it. (Although the Conservatives have their own massive Islamophobia problem and indeed racism issues in general, that doesn't let Labour off the hook even if it is massive hypocrisy by the Tories.)

To answer the OP's question, yes, Labour offering a second referendum would make me more likely to vote for them, given that there's still no way I can vote for the Liberal Democrats after their utter betrayal in 2010.
WelshLovely · 46-50, F
@Burnley123 I lived in one of the few Welsh areas that voted to remain.
I don't want to pass judgement on my fellow countrymen and women but a lot of people voted for Brexit as a protest vote against the poverty and lack of employment there has been since the mining and steel industries closed in the valley towns.
They don't seem to realise that as net recipients of EU money, we've actually been better off under the EU than we will be under Westminster alone.
People were easily swayed by misinformation and media instead of doing their own research.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@TheThinker @WelshLovely

As a Labour member, some of what you say is uncomfortable for me to read and I don't agree with you on everything. I appreciate your honest and thoughtful contributions through.
WelshLovely · 46-50, F
@Burnley123 I'm a union member who got to vote in the leadership contest and I was Corbyn all the way. I really admire how he got young people fired up about politics and gave them something to believe in, but I also know that he's left a lot of those same young people feeling disillusioned and disenfranchised again because they thought he was going to be the one to look after their future in Europe and he just hasn't stepped up to the plate.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@WelshLovely We are of similar age and I come from a Labour background. All I've ever known is Blair, new Labour and neo-liberalism. Corbyn has changed the party and now for the first time in my life, you can actually say that my country has a political left (at least in England it's a novel thing). He's not a natural leader but he cares.

We gotta get things right on this issue though.
TheThinker · 56-60, M
@Burnley123
[quote]I know that Wales voted Brexit.[/quote]

@WelshLovely
[quote]They don't seem to realise that as net recipients of EU money, we've actually been better off under the EU than we will be under Westminster alone. [/quote]

Absolutely, I was about to say this.

About fifteen years ago I spent a lot of time in a lovely part of Wales. The people seemed friendly and broad-minded (I never got any stick for being English, much to my surprise), and the place was littered with lots of new building projects, both commercial and leisure, all with huge placards saying "This area is being regenerated with money from the European Union".

So imagine my surprise and horror when that place voted Leave (albeit by a narrow margin). Turkeys voting for Christmas came to mind...
TheThinker · 56-60, M
@WelshLovely @Burnley123
[quote]I'm a union member who got to vote in the leadership contest and I was Corbyn all the way. I really admire how he got young people fired up about politics and gave them something to believe in, but I also know that he's left a lot of those same young people feeling disillusioned and disenfranchised again because they thought he was going to be the one to look after their future in Europe and he just hasn't stepped up to the plate.[/quote]

Sorry to quote the whole thing but I just want to say that I agree with every word of this.

(Except that I wasn't a union member; I even paid the utterly disgusting £25 anti-gerrymandering fee, at a time when I could ill-afford it, so I could help vote him in.)
WelshLovely · 46-50, F
@Burnley123 I grew up as a lib dem but couldn't stay supporting them after the Nick Clegg coalition and student fees debacle. Corbyn was the face of integrity for me with his lack of expenses claims and his commitment to looking after the man in the street and I truly wish he'd lived up to his promise.
TheThinker · 56-60, M
@WelshLovely Do you know, I read the other day that the Lib Dems forced the Tories to bring in the 5p carrier bag charge at the price of...

...agreeing to raise the level of benefit sanctions. That's right, they tossed the DWP's victims to the wolves for as little as that.

Scum.
TheThinker · 56-60, M
@WelshLovely @Burnley123
[quote]Corbyn was the face of integrity for me with his lack of expenses claims and his commitment to looking after the man in the street and I truly wish he'd lived up to his promise.[/quote]

Again, can only agree with this.
SW-User
@WelshLovely I strongly support a lot of what he stands for.... Except his dislike of the EU he's anti globalist and see the EU as an enabler.... At least for years that was his position.
I actually like staying in the single market and customs union problem is the Norway model means we no longer have any significance in agreeing the future of that. So whilst it's the best exit I still would prefer to remain.
I wish Labour was categoric on its position on all that and whether there would be a definite people's vote on the deal. I fear though that could still be deal or no deal with no remain option.
(I'd vote deal btw)
WelshLovely · 46-50, F
@TheThinker I can't comment on that because I've done no research on that subject and I don't want to be one of the people I was criticising earlier who form an opinion on no evidence they've personally seen
WelshLovely · 46-50, F
@SW-User Nothing I can disagree with there!
TheThinker · 56-60, M
@WelshLovely
[quote] I can't comment on that because I've done no research on that subject...[/quote]

Regarding what, that place in Wales voting Leave, or the Lib Dems DWP thing? (The latter I'm guessing.)
WelshLovely · 46-50, F
@TheThinker The carrier bag charge.....
TheThinker · 56-60, M
@WelshLovely @Burnley123 Was linked to this by a friend:

https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/27300/02-05-2018/lib-dems-backed-benefit-sanctions-to-win-5p-carrier-bag-charge

In the intervening year the original Tweets seem to have gone, although the article has screenshots.
Platinum · M
@WelshLovely it was legally binding once the queen had passed it...and it was legal when most of the MPs voted for the referendum and it was legally binding when 543-54 MPs passed art50....
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@TheThinker That tells you a lot about the Lib Dems and what their priorities are when in Government.
TheThinker · 56-60, M
@Burnley123 Doesn't it just?

I mean yes, the environment is important and reducing plastics in our ocean is essential... but at the price of such human misery?!