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SW-User
@Ynotisay WHAT?! Of all things, how do we disagree on this?
Ynotisay · M
@SW-User :) Sorry. I gotta' call 'em as I see 'em. Their grandstanding isn't doing the Democrats any good. Both of those women are being turned in to the face of the Democratic Party by conservatives even though they have NO track record and aren't deserving. They're both wildly inexperienced and, seemingly, are putting their own public profiles over a party that HAS to take the WH and Senate in the next election.
I'm not saying that some of their positions aren't appropriate. But I do see them being driven by emotion and appealing to those who prefer emotion to what really matters which is legislation.
I'm not saying that some of their positions aren't appropriate. But I do see them being driven by emotion and appealing to those who prefer emotion to what really matters which is legislation.
Northwest · M
@SW-User This is a twisted up Murdoch fabrication. I urge you to watch the video, tweeted by Trump, and see how a criticism of Stephen Miller, is turned into 'OMG, she's assaulting Jews':
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1115648055603343360
Of course 9/11 is not a "thing", but to get to that, you need to hear her entire comment.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1115648055603343360
Of course 9/11 is not a "thing", but to get to that, you need to hear her entire comment.
Ynotisay · M
@Northwest Just to jump in here, I agree that what she said wasn't that egregious. Certainly not worthy of the NY Post wagging the dog. Although, "...some people did something" is definitely tone deaf.
My point is that she's seeking controversy. She's looking for enemies. And she's trying to elevate herself to a position that's not in line with her JOB.
To date it appears her focus is on representing Muslim Americans. Her elected role is to represent Americans. And as a Freshman Congressperson, IMO, she needs to stay in the background, stop playing the persecution and outrage card on Twitter, and LEARN how to be an effective, Democratic politician. That means it's not about her. It's about the Party and the citizens.
My point is that she's seeking controversy. She's looking for enemies. And she's trying to elevate herself to a position that's not in line with her JOB.
To date it appears her focus is on representing Muslim Americans. Her elected role is to represent Americans. And as a Freshman Congressperson, IMO, she needs to stay in the background, stop playing the persecution and outrage card on Twitter, and LEARN how to be an effective, Democratic politician. That means it's not about her. It's about the Party and the citizens.
Northwest · M
@Ynotisay I agree 100%. It's about what the Party can bring the citizens, not just party members. This is the theory.
In reality though, she can either shut up, and accept the de-facto takeover of our foreign policy, by the Evangelicals, or try to do something about it.
I agree with Bernie: we need to have an honest, unbiased discussion about the Middle East. Not possible today, because of the common reaction to statements like hers, and those statements, in the overall scheme of things, are nothing compared to some of the Islamophpbia out there.
I believe part of her problem, is that she's not capable of communicating her thoughts properly. Yesterday, I was in a design meeting, and I had to re-write most of the text in several mobile app screens, because the designer was translating from Farsi to English, and not minding the grammatical differences.
I sort of agree with what you're saying though, about her representing Islam. Not as a religion, but as an under-represented group in the US. That's legitimate. There's so much ignorance out there, and that leads to hate.
Her position reminds of early feminists, and the reception they received. It was something like 'not now, take it slower, take it easy, not in their face, etc.'. I personally think she has the right intention, and just like with feminism (and I know someone is going to remind me that Islam is incompatible with feminism), she's a pioneer, and her work will lead to the bettering of our society.
Meanwhile, just like it was with feminism, she will be opposed, and her views will be used to attack liberals in general, which is exactly what Trump and the GOP is doing now. But, should feminists have heeded those warnings and stopped?
In reality though, she can either shut up, and accept the de-facto takeover of our foreign policy, by the Evangelicals, or try to do something about it.
I agree with Bernie: we need to have an honest, unbiased discussion about the Middle East. Not possible today, because of the common reaction to statements like hers, and those statements, in the overall scheme of things, are nothing compared to some of the Islamophpbia out there.
I believe part of her problem, is that she's not capable of communicating her thoughts properly. Yesterday, I was in a design meeting, and I had to re-write most of the text in several mobile app screens, because the designer was translating from Farsi to English, and not minding the grammatical differences.
I sort of agree with what you're saying though, about her representing Islam. Not as a religion, but as an under-represented group in the US. That's legitimate. There's so much ignorance out there, and that leads to hate.
Her position reminds of early feminists, and the reception they received. It was something like 'not now, take it slower, take it easy, not in their face, etc.'. I personally think she has the right intention, and just like with feminism (and I know someone is going to remind me that Islam is incompatible with feminism), she's a pioneer, and her work will lead to the bettering of our society.
Meanwhile, just like it was with feminism, she will be opposed, and her views will be used to attack liberals in general, which is exactly what Trump and the GOP is doing now. But, should feminists have heeded those warnings and stopped?
Ynotisay · M
@Northwest Good comment, as always, but I see it a little differently. The Woman's Suffrage movement was started, run and won by non-elected women. The Feminist movement had support in the political arena but was driven by citizens. Her job is different. She's an elected official and that carries with it different responsibilities and, as you mentioned, repercussions.
My feeling is that, so far, she's doing more harm than good. No matter how honorable or "right" her intentions are I don't think she's going to get the results she seeks if she continues down this path. But moreover, I see it harming Democrats and that's where my personal line is drawn given the current climate.
My feeling is that, so far, she's doing more harm than good. No matter how honorable or "right" her intentions are I don't think she's going to get the results she seeks if she continues down this path. But moreover, I see it harming Democrats and that's where my personal line is drawn given the current climate.
Northwest · M
@Ynotisay So, what do we do? I'm atheist, but my family background puts me in J-Street. What should I do? Submit to the West Bank Orthodox Taliban? They've already subverted the will of all centrist/progressive Israelis, by importing hundreds of thousands of Orthodox into the West Bank, who became Netanyahu voters, and Trump is now backing them up.
I am not naive, and do realize that the actual Taliban, will not care if I'm J-Street, or a Sheldon Adelson disciple, but we're Americans first and foremost and I do care about what our nation stands for.
In 2003, we stood for hate, death and destruction, when we invaded Iraq, which led to 2016, when we stood for open bigotry, racism and xenophobia, when we elected to Trump. It matters very little that you and I did not elect him, or opposed the war of 2003. Collectively, we're still responsible, as in WE did it, because when we send our troops in, we the People of the United States, are responsible for their actions.
I hesitate to say that she should tone it down, because I don't know if there's ever a good time to stand up for what's right. But, I also was mad at the people who voted for Bernie on principle, because it brought Trump into the White House, and I don't want another term for Trump.
I am not naive, and do realize that the actual Taliban, will not care if I'm J-Street, or a Sheldon Adelson disciple, but we're Americans first and foremost and I do care about what our nation stands for.
In 2003, we stood for hate, death and destruction, when we invaded Iraq, which led to 2016, when we stood for open bigotry, racism and xenophobia, when we elected to Trump. It matters very little that you and I did not elect him, or opposed the war of 2003. Collectively, we're still responsible, as in WE did it, because when we send our troops in, we the People of the United States, are responsible for their actions.
I hesitate to say that she should tone it down, because I don't know if there's ever a good time to stand up for what's right. But, I also was mad at the people who voted for Bernie on principle, because it brought Trump into the White House, and I don't want another term for Trump.
Ynotisay · M
@monte3 Agreed. Changing the tax code on the wealthy and massive is corporations is appropriate and necessary. But coming out against the FIRST piece of business by the Democratic House was extraordinarily wrong. As was her putting out a "Green New Deal" that had ZERO chance of implementation.
She's never met a camera she doesn't like and the more she talks the more fodder there is for a GOP looking for enemies to hold up as representative of an entire party. I think she's really out of touch with the nation. But as long as she's getting Twitter attention from those who think like her I'm not sure that matters.
She's never met a camera she doesn't like and the more she talks the more fodder there is for a GOP looking for enemies to hold up as representative of an entire party. I think she's really out of touch with the nation. But as long as she's getting Twitter attention from those who think like her I'm not sure that matters.
monte3 · 70-79, M
The Gren New deal is as hopeless as anything I have seen.. unlike the tax bracket idea I don’t think it even furthers discussion. I have to. Think about the out touch with the nation idea
I do like her vitality and energy, and more often than not right wing criticism ends up up backfiring on the the right. i@Ynotisay
I do like her vitality and energy, and more often than not right wing criticism ends up up backfiring on the the right. i@Ynotisay
Ynotisay · M
@Northwest I'm an atheist as well so my take is F all religion. Especially as it relates to politics. That said, discrimination, hatred and threats can't stand. Whether religion is involved or not.
During the Obama years I actually felt a sense of pride as "we" raised our stature throughout the world. And now with Trump, as you said, "we" are in a different place. But I don't feel the same sense of ownership as an American now. It's pretty clear there's an "us vs. them" divide. And I'm good with that. There's right and wrong, good and bad and honesty and deceit. So, for me, anything that has the potential to get in the way of the greater good is a non-starter. And that's why I'm right with you with the Bernie Bros. They cost "us" an election and now we're all paying for it. They didn't get their way so they stomped their feet, picked up their toys and went home.
So what I want is these young, inexperienced, (yet passionate) elected officials, AND their emotional supporters, to stop and consider the bigger picture. With social media we now live in an age of faux-persecution and faux-outrage. I see it as a selfish jack off. So if people want to talk about things like fairness, opportunity and a level playing field for all, then they need to take the REAL steps to achieve that. And that's through legislation and legislation is hard. It demands compromise. If you're not willing to do that then you're in the wrong business in the wrong country.
During the Obama years I actually felt a sense of pride as "we" raised our stature throughout the world. And now with Trump, as you said, "we" are in a different place. But I don't feel the same sense of ownership as an American now. It's pretty clear there's an "us vs. them" divide. And I'm good with that. There's right and wrong, good and bad and honesty and deceit. So, for me, anything that has the potential to get in the way of the greater good is a non-starter. And that's why I'm right with you with the Bernie Bros. They cost "us" an election and now we're all paying for it. They didn't get their way so they stomped their feet, picked up their toys and went home.
So what I want is these young, inexperienced, (yet passionate) elected officials, AND their emotional supporters, to stop and consider the bigger picture. With social media we now live in an age of faux-persecution and faux-outrage. I see it as a selfish jack off. So if people want to talk about things like fairness, opportunity and a level playing field for all, then they need to take the REAL steps to achieve that. And that's through legislation and legislation is hard. It demands compromise. If you're not willing to do that then you're in the wrong business in the wrong country.
Ynotisay · M
@monte3 Good point. I actually thought, "Well, maybe she's just trying to push the ball down the field" with the New Green Deal. But I don't think that's what it was. It was pie-in-the-sky thinking and really sophomoric. It was a grandstand move and I'm just not comfortable with political grandstanding. Especially when it creates internal dissent.