Well, what do you know? No Collusion, No Obstruction!
Do you think we government can move on to more pressing business now?
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anythingoes477 · M
Not exactly no collusion, no obstruction.
Trump branded a conspiracy with Russia to intervene in our election all along as "collusion"....but "collusion" is not a crime. It's not a legal term......it's a term used by the media. So to then say I am not guilty of collusion means what? It means I am not guilty of a term that one can be guilty of.
By BRANDING Russia election meddling "collusion" 20 times a day in Tweets---Trump made this whole issue a matter of one charge---that don't exist...except in the minds of the public and the media. It is like saying they are investigating me for tomfoolery....but tomfoolery isn't a crime--so when they say we will not charge you with tomfoolery--that means I'm totally exonhernated of ANY wrongdoing. That's wrong on at least 2 counts. One--not being "charged" by someone YOU appointed to do the charging don't mean you're innocent. It means the man you appointed is paying you back. And 2--"collusion" is not a legal term to charge anyone with in the beginning.
Trump was not charged with "collusion"---because "collusion" is not a legal crime as I said. "Conspiracy" is the crime and the report does NOT say Trump or his campaign team did not CONSPIRE with Russia. So this is a word game. In fact this report does not deal with the actions of the Trump campaign team per se at all in terms of CHARGING "them" with conspiracy with Russia to intervene in our elections. It only deals with did Trump do it himself--personally. It deals with the laying out of supporting evidence to point to a crime "that Trump did personally"....but it was not Mueller's job to CHARGE the campaign staff. That is the AG's job and if no charges are filed---that is at the AG's discretion. So does that mean "EVERYONE is totally innocent"? No....it simply means the AG will not charge anyone. That's NOT totally innocent.
On obstruction......there was no Mueller determination on this at all. Mueller did not find Trump guilty or not guilty of obstruction....he simply laid out in the report what was found to be said and done and then by law Mueller has to leave the actual charging of a crime to the AG...who in this case (predictably) did not charge trump. No surprise there. In his interview to get the AG appointment last August Barr publicly announced that he "would NEVER charge a sitting president with anything if he was named AG because in his mind a sitting president can't be charged with a crime". So it's no shock Barr didn't CHARGE trump with obstruction.....but it no way means he did not obstruct justice with the firing of Comey, etc. In fact Trump openly admitted several times in live interviews--on tape---he did get rid of Comey for just that reason.
So by Trump's own words he DID obstruct. And when he stood on that stage in the 2nd debate and openly ask Russia to help find missing emails on an election opponent he DID openly ask the Russians to enter into a conspiracy with his campaign to affect the election outcome. The fact Barr did not CHARGE is the keyword. The actions and admissions to both charges came out of Trump's own mouth...recorded on video.....but Barr is on the same team as Trump----and because of that he won't CHARGE Trump. By no stretch of the imagination does that mean not guilty---it means just what Barr said---"not charged".
Moving on is a nice ida, but won't happen. Not until we get what paid for--BOTH SIDES---a report--not a boiled down conclusion from a team player.
Trump branded a conspiracy with Russia to intervene in our election all along as "collusion"....but "collusion" is not a crime. It's not a legal term......it's a term used by the media. So to then say I am not guilty of collusion means what? It means I am not guilty of a term that one can be guilty of.
By BRANDING Russia election meddling "collusion" 20 times a day in Tweets---Trump made this whole issue a matter of one charge---that don't exist...except in the minds of the public and the media. It is like saying they are investigating me for tomfoolery....but tomfoolery isn't a crime--so when they say we will not charge you with tomfoolery--that means I'm totally exonhernated of ANY wrongdoing. That's wrong on at least 2 counts. One--not being "charged" by someone YOU appointed to do the charging don't mean you're innocent. It means the man you appointed is paying you back. And 2--"collusion" is not a legal term to charge anyone with in the beginning.
Trump was not charged with "collusion"---because "collusion" is not a legal crime as I said. "Conspiracy" is the crime and the report does NOT say Trump or his campaign team did not CONSPIRE with Russia. So this is a word game. In fact this report does not deal with the actions of the Trump campaign team per se at all in terms of CHARGING "them" with conspiracy with Russia to intervene in our elections. It only deals with did Trump do it himself--personally. It deals with the laying out of supporting evidence to point to a crime "that Trump did personally"....but it was not Mueller's job to CHARGE the campaign staff. That is the AG's job and if no charges are filed---that is at the AG's discretion. So does that mean "EVERYONE is totally innocent"? No....it simply means the AG will not charge anyone. That's NOT totally innocent.
On obstruction......there was no Mueller determination on this at all. Mueller did not find Trump guilty or not guilty of obstruction....he simply laid out in the report what was found to be said and done and then by law Mueller has to leave the actual charging of a crime to the AG...who in this case (predictably) did not charge trump. No surprise there. In his interview to get the AG appointment last August Barr publicly announced that he "would NEVER charge a sitting president with anything if he was named AG because in his mind a sitting president can't be charged with a crime". So it's no shock Barr didn't CHARGE trump with obstruction.....but it no way means he did not obstruct justice with the firing of Comey, etc. In fact Trump openly admitted several times in live interviews--on tape---he did get rid of Comey for just that reason.
So by Trump's own words he DID obstruct. And when he stood on that stage in the 2nd debate and openly ask Russia to help find missing emails on an election opponent he DID openly ask the Russians to enter into a conspiracy with his campaign to affect the election outcome. The fact Barr did not CHARGE is the keyword. The actions and admissions to both charges came out of Trump's own mouth...recorded on video.....but Barr is on the same team as Trump----and because of that he won't CHARGE Trump. By no stretch of the imagination does that mean not guilty---it means just what Barr said---"not charged".
Moving on is a nice ida, but won't happen. Not until we get what paid for--BOTH SIDES---a report--not a boiled down conclusion from a team player.
anythingoes477 · M
@Budwick Just as I said. He was not charged with anything because charging for a crime is not Mueller's function. The FBI's function is to only compile evidence...then pass it along to either a Grand Jury or the AG. It is those two entities that do the charging of an individual or entity. Saying Mueller found no evidence of either is not true. He could have found none or he could have found a ton of evidence---but it's up to Barr to release what he wants of that----unless legal challenges change that.
What is true is that Barr said in his application for AG last August that in "his opinion" no sitting president can be charged with anything---regardless of evidence. That was the dispute in his confirmation hearings. When Barr announced that was his position--guess who was approved for the AG spot knowing Mueller would be done soon? So whether or not Trump is charged comes down to if Barr wants to do it.........it does NOT indicate there is no evidence. It simply indicates that Barr does not believe a sitting president can be charged.
What is true is that Barr said in his application for AG last August that in "his opinion" no sitting president can be charged with anything---regardless of evidence. That was the dispute in his confirmation hearings. When Barr announced that was his position--guess who was approved for the AG spot knowing Mueller would be done soon? So whether or not Trump is charged comes down to if Barr wants to do it.........it does NOT indicate there is no evidence. It simply indicates that Barr does not believe a sitting president can be charged.
anythingoes477 · M
@GJOFJ3 Talked to you before. You're brain dead. Offering anything intelligent, logical or true to you is like giving medicine to a dead man and hoping it will help. So you can say what you want---you're not in the loop of a rational conversation.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@anythingoes477 [quote]pass it along to either a Grand Jury or the AG. [/quote]
I see. Thank you counselor.
So, in your professional legal opinion, with no evidence of collusion or obstruction, do you expect that these investigative results will result in indictments?
I see. Thank you counselor.
So, in your professional legal opinion, with no evidence of collusion or obstruction, do you expect that these investigative results will result in indictments?
anythingoes477 · M
@Budwick No...there will not be indictments. Mueller can indict........if the FBI feels there is adequate evidence or reason to go to a Grand Jury. But he did not do that....so he passed evidence and his findings along to the AG. If the AG feels that evidence is grounds for indictment or charges that is up to him. (BTW--stick "counselor" in your ass. We're talking intelligently on a subject that has no sides--just facts involved---and you don't have to be an asshole to do that. If you cannot help it...we're done).
Budwick · 70-79, M
@anythingoes477 [quote]you don't have to be an asshole [/quote]
And you needn't unnecessarily contrary.
I've had this false Collusion / Corruption narrative about the president rammed up my ass for two years.
Your posturing over total bullshit side bar details to justify further brow beating of the presidency is unacceptable. Your guys took a shot, a long shot and lost. I and the American public are done with this crap.
Stand down and apologize or risk the unbridled wrath of America - the real America.
And you needn't unnecessarily contrary.
I've had this false Collusion / Corruption narrative about the president rammed up my ass for two years.
Your posturing over total bullshit side bar details to justify further brow beating of the presidency is unacceptable. Your guys took a shot, a long shot and lost. I and the American public are done with this crap.
Stand down and apologize or risk the unbridled wrath of America - the real America.
anythingoes477 · M
@Budwick Oooooooooooooooooh shuddering. The unbridled wrath of America. lol lol lol Thank god you're not a drama queen.
We lost nothing by demanding an investigation. And we lose nothing when sooner or later it all comes out. We paid for a FULL REPORT---not the conclusions of a shill. Anyone--of either party who doesn't want to at least know what was found out in it's entirety is either dull witted or a shill too. The biggest crime of the 21st century according to Trumpers is investigation of possible crimes. Why? What are you afraid of? And to say we've seen enough...stop asking--shows more fear yet of what the actual evidence is. This investigation ONLY covered what Trump PERSONALLY did---not what his campaign staff did on his behalf.
To say we're done with investigating Trump and his entire administration and his family..........is naieve. What Mueller investigated is only the tip of the iceberg. There are 17 parallel investigations running at once concerning wrongdoing by Trump, his family and his staff. The biggest of all---yet to come---is in the Southern District of New York. This was a tiny fan and tiny turd. The big fan and the huge pile of shit about to hit it are in New York and in the 19 pending sexual abuse and rape cases still pending--and sealed--until Trump can't pardon himself anymore.
And if he's found guilty of nothing--not likely---history will still find him an embarrassment to U.S. history.
I'll keep an eye out for that "unbridled wrath". lol lol lol lol Coming to a neighborhood near you soon. lol lol lol lol
We lost nothing by demanding an investigation. And we lose nothing when sooner or later it all comes out. We paid for a FULL REPORT---not the conclusions of a shill. Anyone--of either party who doesn't want to at least know what was found out in it's entirety is either dull witted or a shill too. The biggest crime of the 21st century according to Trumpers is investigation of possible crimes. Why? What are you afraid of? And to say we've seen enough...stop asking--shows more fear yet of what the actual evidence is. This investigation ONLY covered what Trump PERSONALLY did---not what his campaign staff did on his behalf.
To say we're done with investigating Trump and his entire administration and his family..........is naieve. What Mueller investigated is only the tip of the iceberg. There are 17 parallel investigations running at once concerning wrongdoing by Trump, his family and his staff. The biggest of all---yet to come---is in the Southern District of New York. This was a tiny fan and tiny turd. The big fan and the huge pile of shit about to hit it are in New York and in the 19 pending sexual abuse and rape cases still pending--and sealed--until Trump can't pardon himself anymore.
And if he's found guilty of nothing--not likely---history will still find him an embarrassment to U.S. history.
I'll keep an eye out for that "unbridled wrath". lol lol lol lol Coming to a neighborhood near you soon. lol lol lol lol
Budwick · 70-79, M
@anythingoes477 [quote]We lost nothing by demanding an investigation.[/quote]
You lost nothing, maybe.
WE lost quite a bit. Like confidence in our justice system, that seems to have multiple levels of scrutiny - depending upon ones political affiliation.
How about Michael Flynn whose reputation was forever tarnished and is bankrupt over phony investigations.
And, what about the sick media culture that hasn't reported news in years?
You are an empty suit, void of conscience, unable to discern right from wrong.
You are perfectly willing to continue this damaging charade because - you don't like the president.
I don't like you Anything. I don't like who you are or what you stand for.
You lost nothing, maybe.
WE lost quite a bit. Like confidence in our justice system, that seems to have multiple levels of scrutiny - depending upon ones political affiliation.
How about Michael Flynn whose reputation was forever tarnished and is bankrupt over phony investigations.
And, what about the sick media culture that hasn't reported news in years?
You are an empty suit, void of conscience, unable to discern right from wrong.
You are perfectly willing to continue this damaging charade because - you don't like the president.
I don't like you Anything. I don't like who you are or what you stand for.
anythingoes477 · M
@Budwick "How about Michael Flynn whose reputation was forever tarnished and is bankrupt over phony investigations."
???????? Seriously?? Flynn was an ADMITTED foreign agent working for a communist government--while being embedded in our White House---at Trump's direction. He admitted to being an unregistered communist spy that worked thru the Turkish government.....and you're sorry for him?????????? Wow....you are past words ignorant.
Flynn was exposed as a foreign agent during the Obama years.His clearance was pulled immediately rather than allow him further access to U.S. National Security intel. EVERY IC in the U.S. had him listed as a traitor and blacklisted for ever getting a clearance again. Trump was warned away from Flynn while he was in transition and he disregarded all warnings. Trump then forced a clearance for Flynn through--which allowed him to re-access national security information with the total freedom due to his position in the WH to travel to hand deliver that intel---and/or use secure unmonitored digital channels unchecked. Flynn was a flat out Russian trained agent...attached to the Turkish government....that Trump gave full access to every troop movement, future national security plans, Homeland Security protocols...embedded foreign agents--anything Flynn wanted to find out........and you feel sorry for him?????????
Does wearing a Chinese red hat mean you have to be communist yourself? Or just love them??
???????? Seriously?? Flynn was an ADMITTED foreign agent working for a communist government--while being embedded in our White House---at Trump's direction. He admitted to being an unregistered communist spy that worked thru the Turkish government.....and you're sorry for him?????????? Wow....you are past words ignorant.
Flynn was exposed as a foreign agent during the Obama years.His clearance was pulled immediately rather than allow him further access to U.S. National Security intel. EVERY IC in the U.S. had him listed as a traitor and blacklisted for ever getting a clearance again. Trump was warned away from Flynn while he was in transition and he disregarded all warnings. Trump then forced a clearance for Flynn through--which allowed him to re-access national security information with the total freedom due to his position in the WH to travel to hand deliver that intel---and/or use secure unmonitored digital channels unchecked. Flynn was a flat out Russian trained agent...attached to the Turkish government....that Trump gave full access to every troop movement, future national security plans, Homeland Security protocols...embedded foreign agents--anything Flynn wanted to find out........and you feel sorry for him?????????
Does wearing a Chinese red hat mean you have to be communist yourself? Or just love them??
Budwick · 70-79, M
@anythingoes477 Michael Flynn Is Owed an Apology
One year after he pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, there is still no evidence that he is a traitor.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-18/michael-flynn-sentencing-washington-owes-him-an-apology
One year after he pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, there is still no evidence that he is a traitor.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-18/michael-flynn-sentencing-washington-owes-him-an-apology
anythingoes477 · M
@Budwick You think Flynn's a hero--you suck his dick. And I can find you articles all day long that aren't printed in right wing publications that says he is a Communist Turkish agent. His own testimony admits he was an agent for Turkey. Done here. Nothing in common with traitors and you are one all the way up to your empty red hat wearing Russian head.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@anythingoes477 tHANKS FOR YOUR UNBIASED INPUT, YOU COMMON SLUG.
anythingoes477 · M
@Budwick In 2 years Trump will be gone. With any luck the man with the sickle will come visit you. Dump two trash containers at the same time. Time for you to go. I have NOTHING in common with traitors or Russian sympathizers. You are both.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@anythingoes477 [quote]In 2 years Trump will be gone[/quote]
Until then, STFU.
Your boy Mueller does not share your views.
Until then, STFU.
Your boy Mueller does not share your views.