Is O’Rourke correct? Would El Paso residents vote in favor of tearing down the existing wall there?
Anyone have any studies or factual data on that?
61-69, M
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Mamapolo2016 · F
There are studies and Federal data that show both 'deportable immigrants' and crime dropped with the building of the El Paso wall - to the point where El Paso was recognized as among the safer cities in the US.
However - it is nigh on to impossible anymore to find statistics uncolored by agenda - by either political side.
What the citizens of El Paso want is anybody's guess and until numbers are crunched by somebody blind to the political effects of the numbers but keen on the true meaning - there's no knowing.
However - it is nigh on to impossible anymore to find statistics uncolored by agenda - by either political side.
What the citizens of El Paso want is anybody's guess and until numbers are crunched by somebody blind to the political effects of the numbers but keen on the true meaning - there's no knowing.
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Than why would O’Rourke make that claim? He didn’t even mention a single hand picked focus group? @Mamapolo2016
Mamapolo2016 · F
@jackjjackson You know the answer to that as well as I do. And it's quite possible he's telling the truth. Many El Paso residents have family connections with people who want in. The mayor is sold on his party's line. Just shy of 80% of El Paso's citizens are Hispanic. It's a border town and as such, relies to a large extent on cross-border commerce of all descriptions.
And - votes for the Democratic mayor come from anti-wall voters.
And - votes for the Democratic mayor come from anti-wall voters.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Mamapolo2016 Thing is... El Paso was one of the saf[b]est[/b] cities before the wall too.
[quote]“We are considered the safest city with a population greater than 500,000,” Margo said. “I talked to our police chief, through his staff, today, and found out in 2008, we were like second. In 2009, after the fence was built, we were still second. But we’ve progressed to be the number one safest city in the nation.”[/quote]
The mayor seems to think that it chiefly made a difference in non-violent crime, not safety.
[quote]Our city police's community-relations efforts and the cooperation between our law enforcement agencies contributed to making our city a safe place to live and work before border fencing was put in place. In fact, between 1996 and 2006, the number of reported violent crimes fell by more than 34 percent.
Construction on the border fencing in El Paso did not start until 2008 and it was completed by mid-2009. The barrier between El Paso and Juarez, Mexico, has appeared to act as a deterrent for nonviolent crime, but it is our community’s investment in our public safety and the dedication of our law enforcement agencies that continue to keep us safe.[/quote]
[quote]“We are considered the safest city with a population greater than 500,000,” Margo said. “I talked to our police chief, through his staff, today, and found out in 2008, we were like second. In 2009, after the fence was built, we were still second. But we’ve progressed to be the number one safest city in the nation.”[/quote]
The mayor seems to think that it chiefly made a difference in non-violent crime, not safety.
[quote]Our city police's community-relations efforts and the cooperation between our law enforcement agencies contributed to making our city a safe place to live and work before border fencing was put in place. In fact, between 1996 and 2006, the number of reported violent crimes fell by more than 34 percent.
Construction on the border fencing in El Paso did not start until 2008 and it was completed by mid-2009. The barrier between El Paso and Juarez, Mexico, has appeared to act as a deterrent for nonviolent crime, but it is our community’s investment in our public safety and the dedication of our law enforcement agencies that continue to keep us safe.[/quote]
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
That’s a lot of what ifs. @Mamapolo2016
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Show me where the mayor recommends tearing it down? @QuixoticSoul
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@jackjjackson Never said he did.
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
So you got nothing. Enjoy this rabbit hole you created solo my friend. @QuixoticSoul
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@jackjjackson What rabbit hole lmao? You can't keep up with the conversation today?
Mamapolo2016 · F
@jackjjackson I have to admit El Paso is not and was not as dangerous as it is cracked up to be. As felonious, maybe, but not as life-threatening.
Comparison: Denver, with equivalent population - in 2017, 56 murders.
Albuquerque, equivalent population, 2017, 75 murders.
El Paso, 20 in 2017.
El Paso was approaching those two cities, but that changed. Why? You tell me. Better policing, the wall...who knows?
Comparison: Denver, with equivalent population - in 2017, 56 murders.
Albuquerque, equivalent population, 2017, 75 murders.
El Paso, 20 in 2017.
El Paso was approaching those two cities, but that changed. Why? You tell me. Better policing, the wall...who knows?
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Not going to waste time on head of the pin discussions with you no offense intended. @QuixoticSoul
Mamapolo2016 · F
@jackjjackson It would be more instructive if murder statistics revealed who killed whom and why.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Mamapolo2016 Denver is actually having a pretty rough few years. '17 and '16 both highest number of murders in a decade.
The 90s were kind of a rough time all over, and Denver hit 95 homicides in '92. Seems that it's always been more dangerous than El Paso - I'd say that it was never really approaching.
The 90s were kind of a rough time all over, and Denver hit 95 homicides in '92. Seems that it's always been more dangerous than El Paso - I'd say that it was never really approaching.
Mamapolo2016 · F
@QuixoticSoul El Paso reached 56 murders in 1993. I call that 'approaching.'
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Mamapolo2016 '92-'93 seems to be the high point all over the country, so using El Paso's 90's peak vs the current numbers in Denver looks pretty bad for Denver.
Wonder what's going on in Colorado.
Wonder what's going on in Colorado.
Mamapolo2016 · F
@QuixoticSoul Don't know. Quibbling makes my head hurt. And Albuquerque's worse.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Mamapolo2016 Albuquerque is actually an anomaly here, because they really were safer in the 90s, during the nadir of our national murder rate. Their 90s peak was in '96 and it was 70.
Considering national trends and the historically safe times we're living in, something is going [i]very[/i] wrong over there lately.
Considering national trends and the historically safe times we're living in, something is going [i]very[/i] wrong over there lately.
Mamapolo2016 · F
@QuixoticSoul No foolin'.
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Hint: in what region of the country in Albuquerque? @QuixoticSoul
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@jackjjackson The part that’s not near the border.
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Check a map professor, it’s in the Southwest an Arizona loaded with Mexican legal immigrants and illegal aliens both. @QuixoticSoul
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@jackjjacksonIt’s up the interstate from El Paso. And there are a lot of other cities in the Southwest, many closer to the border, many also flush with immigrants. Some big, some small. Most, better off.
Albuquerque is more dangerous than Chicago.
Albuquerque is more dangerous than Chicago.
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Enjoy your weekend there then. @QuixoticSoul
Mamapolo2016 · F
@jackjjackson I want to go on record as saying I don't think certainly immigration and probably not illegal aliens are respomsible for crime rate increases. There are some studies that show the opposite - that cities experiencing the largest increase in immigrants had a faster decrease in crime.
I don't know the answer.
I don't know the answer.
Mamapolo2016 · F
@QuixoticSoul Here isa timely statement on 'what's going on in Albuquerque.' It was prefaced about a statement by a police officer describing his experience in chasing a suspect who had just shot another man in the head. A crowd gathered around yelling 'racist pigs' and accusing the police of planting a gun on the suspect. The officer said, 'I knew then I didn't want to be a cop anymore.'
From KOAT TV, Albuquerque:
[quote]Just a year earlier, the city of Albuquerque had reached a court settlement agreement with the DOJ after an investigation found that the “Albuquerque Police Department engages in a pattern or practice of use of excessive force including the use of unreasonable deadly force,” DOJ attorneys said in a 2014 news conference.
At the time, there had been 36 officer-involved shootings in just four years.
More than four years later, Target 7 has found that nearly all of the cities that reached settlement agreements or consent decrees with the DOJ during the same time as Albuquerque have seen double-digit increases in violent crime - crimes like murders, rapes and robberies. Cops are also leaving the departments.[/quote]
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
From KOAT TV, Albuquerque:
[quote]Just a year earlier, the city of Albuquerque had reached a court settlement agreement with the DOJ after an investigation found that the “Albuquerque Police Department engages in a pattern or practice of use of excessive force including the use of unreasonable deadly force,” DOJ attorneys said in a 2014 news conference.
At the time, there had been 36 officer-involved shootings in just four years.
More than four years later, Target 7 has found that nearly all of the cities that reached settlement agreements or consent decrees with the DOJ during the same time as Albuquerque have seen double-digit increases in violent crime - crimes like murders, rapes and robberies. Cops are also leaving the departments.[/quote]
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.