When Was The Last Time Great Britain Was A Sovereign Nation?

@QuixoticSoul It is controlled by Brussels.

@patkaren1717 Dont be silly. Shit, if anything, it has outsized influence and power, and used those to bargain special exceptions for itself - when it comes to the UK in the EU, “first among equals” definitely comes to mind.

@QuixoticSoul You must be kidding equal. Just tell the EU to Piss Off.

@patkaren1717 They're not equal, that's what I mean. They're more equal than others.

EU is pretty sweet. UK will rue the whole brexit thing down the road. There's no real upside to it, and lots to lose.

@QuixoticSoul Why would anybody be want to be ruled by the EU. It is nothing short of the old Soviet Union. A little today and more rules tomorrow.

@patkaren1717 I've lived in the USSR, and visit the EU regularly - my family runs a business and owns property there.

You couldn't possibly make a worse comparison. That's an insane thing to say. Insane.

@QuixoticSoul I did"nt mean it as a direct comparrision but one as being ruled by another. When does the new rules stop.

@patkaren1717 It's nothing like the USSR in that sense either. EU countries are still very much countries. This is immediately apparent if you live or try to do business there, they have separate foreign policies, etc.

Yeah, there are rules - for the common shared good. Those rules come with a lot of benefits attached to them, and are ultimately shaped as bilateral agreements. We have those too, with lots of states. It doesn't make us not sovereign even if we are bound by them.

Finally, as brexit amply demonstrates - nobody is forced to stay in the EU, which would be the real indicator of any sort of sovereignty loss. Mostly, what keeps nations in the EU, is that it's a damn good deal all around. This is the problem with Brexit too, the Brits are going to lose a ton of money and influence.

@QuixoticSoul I disagree with your thinking. But one day when it dissolves you will look back and see that it was not good for most of the countries. There are countries now that are going against Brussels and Merkel.

@patkaren1717 Sure, there is bound to be jockeying and friction, no large scale human endeavor is possible without it. And of course the EU is good for most countries.

From the security perspective, most of them have benefited and are better off under the EU.

From the individual liberty and rule of law perspective, virtually all of them are.

Economically, most them are also better off under the EU, and some a lot better (UK is actually one of these). A couple of them are worse off - but with a caveat. Countries like Greece and Spain would be better off in the EU, without the Euro. But as UK and Czech republic demonstrate, that is eminently possible. Plus let's face it - they'd fuck it up anyhow.

@patkaren1717 [quote]Why would anybody be want to be ruled by the EU. It is nothing short of the old Soviet Union[/quote]

Except with money instead of AK-47s.