Is it a right or a privilege to live in a rural area?
If you want to live in the sticks, fine, but why should the folks in towns have to provide highways and other expensive infrastructure to support their decision?
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windinhishair · 61-69, M
Most food isn't grown or raised in the cities and towns. Roads exist to provide transportation for goods and people between cities, towns, and rural and suburban areas. You can't drive or transport goods from Chicago to Denver without passing through rural areas. So town and city dwellers benefit from roads and other infrastructure.
I've lived in both urban and rural areas, and prefer to live rural. In my state, my taxes overwhelmingly support large cities, not the other way around.
I've lived in both urban and rural areas, and prefer to live rural. In my state, my taxes overwhelmingly support large cities, not the other way around.
Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
@windinhishair in Minnesota the stock is the sticks. No food being grown out there for anyone.
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@Tastyfrzz Over 8,050,000 acres of Minnesota are planted in corn, and another 8,150,000 acres in soybeans. Significant amounts of wheat, potatoes, peas, beets, beans, barley, oats, and pumpkins are also planted.
https://www.nass.usda.gov/Quick_Stats/Ag_Overview/stateOverview.php?state=MINNESOTA
https://www.nass.usda.gov/Quick_Stats/Ag_Overview/stateOverview.php?state=MINNESOTA
Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
That's in southern Minnesota. Below St. Cloud and west Minnesota in the red River valley.
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@Tastyfrzz Yep. Farm country.
hlpflwthat · M
@windinhishair Where do you live that the rural areas subsidize the urban? I asked google if there are US states where the rural areas subsidize the urban, and all that came up were articles declaring this a myth. So I'm genuinely curious(cuz I live rural myself.)
"[i]An analysis by the Star Tribune earlier this year found that’s a misperception. It found that the metro contributes about 52 percent of the vehicle sales and fuel taxes and registration fees and receives 32 percent of it back in transportation funding (to be fair, rural areas have 87 percent of lane miles and got about two-thirds of the funding)."[/i]
http://www.startribune.com/metro-contributes-half-of-transportation-dollars-gets-fewer-in-return/416565963/
I live in the corn & bean country of southern Minnesota, and my own home would be considered 'rural.' But when citing the 16 million acres of corn & beans it's wise to remember that Minnesota is 52 million acres large - with a few additional million acres of water surface.
"[i]An analysis by the Star Tribune earlier this year found that’s a misperception. It found that the metro contributes about 52 percent of the vehicle sales and fuel taxes and registration fees and receives 32 percent of it back in transportation funding (to be fair, rural areas have 87 percent of lane miles and got about two-thirds of the funding)."[/i]
http://www.startribune.com/metro-contributes-half-of-transportation-dollars-gets-fewer-in-return/416565963/
I live in the corn & bean country of southern Minnesota, and my own home would be considered 'rural.' But when citing the 16 million acres of corn & beans it's wise to remember that Minnesota is 52 million acres large - with a few additional million acres of water surface.
monte3 · 70-79, M
I am originally from very rural west central Minnesota and now live in the TwinCities. Believe me there is not enough economic activity in rural Minnesota right now to support anything. It is getting depressing to visit out 5here.
Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
@hlpflwthat I'm from Cass county and there isn't enough business up there to support a single dirt road much less any tarred roads. Vacationers and retirees spend some money at the bait shop and bar. There's not much to do so the kids up there hit for the cities.
hlpflwthat · M
@monte3 @Tastyfrzz Well I wish I had the perfect answer for you and monte, but I'll say this: I'm from that populated SE corner of the state and I personally am perfectly fine financing transportation & infrastructure for the upper & western portions of the state. I love the Chain of Lakes, Brainerd & Bemidji areas.
And since I do have kids and hopefully grandkids one day, I like to think forward and remember that those places that were once too cold for cropland may soon enough be more than forest.
SKI-U-MAH
And since I do have kids and hopefully grandkids one day, I like to think forward and remember that those places that were once too cold for cropland may soon enough be more than forest.
SKI-U-MAH
monte3 · 70-79, M
I absolutely agree. I live in a relatively affluent area and I have NO problem having part of my taxes going to places, like west central mn that need it. @hlpflwthat
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@hlpflwthat One state that where rural areas pay a disproportionate share of taxes for the benefits received is New York. Upstate is rural with a few cities thrown in, but New York City is heavily subsidized and receives most of the benefits.
The 16+ million acres is just for corn and soybeans. There are millions more acres in Minnesota used for other crops, as well as for hay and foraging. Minnesota is a great state--have done work there and hope to do some canoeing in Boundary Waters.
I have no problem paying taxes, as long as the money is used wisely. We're all in this together, and there is never going to be a situation where one group or another won't benefit relative to others. That's what our social contract with each other addresses.
The 16+ million acres is just for corn and soybeans. There are millions more acres in Minnesota used for other crops, as well as for hay and foraging. Minnesota is a great state--have done work there and hope to do some canoeing in Boundary Waters.
I have no problem paying taxes, as long as the money is used wisely. We're all in this together, and there is never going to be a situation where one group or another won't benefit relative to others. That's what our social contract with each other addresses.
hlpflwthat · M
@windinhishair You and I seem same side of most issues, so please realize I'm coming from a place of respect and sincerity. I once assumed that outs-state areas always took a screwing/back seat to metros & cities. But some digging on the matter showed me that it's almost always the opposite. It's a myth that - frankly - is being used to turn rural areas 'red' politically. Property taxes stay local, and almost every penny of other taxes are generated by people. That revenue comes from 'where the people are.' That's why I asked for examples you might have.
[i][i]"70 percent of the income tax that the state collects happens to come from Westchester, Nassau, Suffolk and New York City"[/i][/i]
— Robert Mujica, State Budget Director on Thursday, January 18th, 2018 in a radio interview
[i]The total for those in New York City and the three counties came to $31.3 billion, or 66 percent of the state total. Another $7.8 billion came from non-residents who commuted into New York state for work. Most of those filers worked in New York City, according to a spokesperson from the agency. If you add the revenue from non-residents to that of New York City, Westchester, and Long Island filers, the share increases to 82 percent of the state total.[/i]
https://www.politifact.com/new-york/statements/2018/feb/01/robert-mujica/do-downstate-ny-residents-contribute-more-income-t/
Here's another that debunks a western New York Republican's claim that they're paying more than they get.
https://www.politifact.com/new-york/statements/2016/oct/14/chris-jacobs/state-spends-more-western-new-york-it-receives-tax/
I have family in dairy, beef, pork, corn, beans & beets. I'm not at all anti-ag and have as clear a picture of land-use here as most. The most generous estimate of Minnesota farmland(MN Beef Producers) puts it 27 million acres. Even if we don't deduct all the un-tillable acres on farms here in The Driftless, that's only half our 54 million acres. So Tasty is correct that much of our outstate area - the north in our case - is not big at tax generation. He knows it cuz he lives it.
But please [b]do[/b] treat yourself to a week or two in the BWCA before your dirt nap rolls around. The solitude and beauty and fishing - and mosquitoes - you'll never forget. And if you own a boat, spend a long weekend camping the islands of the Mississippi down here in The Driftless. It's like a free National Park no one knows about. Midweek is even better :)
[i][i]"70 percent of the income tax that the state collects happens to come from Westchester, Nassau, Suffolk and New York City"[/i][/i]
— Robert Mujica, State Budget Director on Thursday, January 18th, 2018 in a radio interview
[i]The total for those in New York City and the three counties came to $31.3 billion, or 66 percent of the state total. Another $7.8 billion came from non-residents who commuted into New York state for work. Most of those filers worked in New York City, according to a spokesperson from the agency. If you add the revenue from non-residents to that of New York City, Westchester, and Long Island filers, the share increases to 82 percent of the state total.[/i]
https://www.politifact.com/new-york/statements/2018/feb/01/robert-mujica/do-downstate-ny-residents-contribute-more-income-t/
Here's another that debunks a western New York Republican's claim that they're paying more than they get.
https://www.politifact.com/new-york/statements/2016/oct/14/chris-jacobs/state-spends-more-western-new-york-it-receives-tax/
I have family in dairy, beef, pork, corn, beans & beets. I'm not at all anti-ag and have as clear a picture of land-use here as most. The most generous estimate of Minnesota farmland(MN Beef Producers) puts it 27 million acres. Even if we don't deduct all the un-tillable acres on farms here in The Driftless, that's only half our 54 million acres. So Tasty is correct that much of our outstate area - the north in our case - is not big at tax generation. He knows it cuz he lives it.
But please [b]do[/b] treat yourself to a week or two in the BWCA before your dirt nap rolls around. The solitude and beauty and fishing - and mosquitoes - you'll never forget. And if you own a boat, spend a long weekend camping the islands of the Mississippi down here in The Driftless. It's like a free National Park no one knows about. Midweek is even better :)