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MistyCee Best Comment
Not a conventional war, IMO, but we do seem headed towards conflicts that our constitution is ill equipped to handle.
Kavanaugh's confirmation is a pretty clear example of this. There is no appeal from a Supreme Court justices failure to recuse himself, and yet, based on Kavanaugh's statement before his confirmation, it's hard to see how any lawyer representing a party in any way affiliated with any of Trump's "enemies" could ethically not raise the question of Kavanaugh's impartiality.
Too bad, I'm sure Trump allies will say, echoing Obama's "elections have consequences" line, but this is a pretty significant change in our system of government, when those opposed to the executive have no resort to an independent judiciary.
Of course, there's still the "deep state," lower court judges who might resist unlawful conduct, and elections might give us a Congress who might stand up to one man rule, but even die hard Republicans should think about what's happening at this point.
It's definitely a crisis point.
Kavanaugh's confirmation is a pretty clear example of this. There is no appeal from a Supreme Court justices failure to recuse himself, and yet, based on Kavanaugh's statement before his confirmation, it's hard to see how any lawyer representing a party in any way affiliated with any of Trump's "enemies" could ethically not raise the question of Kavanaugh's impartiality.
Too bad, I'm sure Trump allies will say, echoing Obama's "elections have consequences" line, but this is a pretty significant change in our system of government, when those opposed to the executive have no resort to an independent judiciary.
Of course, there's still the "deep state," lower court judges who might resist unlawful conduct, and elections might give us a Congress who might stand up to one man rule, but even die hard Republicans should think about what's happening at this point.
It's definitely a crisis point.
@Sarin Err... Ummm.. thanks for the BA, btw, but please, please, do not throw around the term "Final Solution," ok?
The paralells are not perfect, but they are way too close for comfort in terms of subverting a democracy into a dictatorship with strong nationality, populist and xenophobic tendencies.
I'm hoping even Republicans see finding a "final solution" to the "democrat problem" might be undesirable.
The paralells are not perfect, but they are way too close for comfort in terms of subverting a democracy into a dictatorship with strong nationality, populist and xenophobic tendencies.
I'm hoping even Republicans see finding a "final solution" to the "democrat problem" might be undesirable.
@Sarin By all means act by voting and by speaking, but keep in mind that protests can lead to authoritarian changes.
The republic is not lost yet, but chaos and violence could make things worse rather than better, and the Trump playbook really is based on that.
I think we need to be careful not to give him a Reichstag like excuse to protect "us" even from ourselves.
The republic is not lost yet, but chaos and violence could make things worse rather than better, and the Trump playbook really is based on that.
I think we need to be careful not to give him a Reichstag like excuse to protect "us" even from ourselves.
@okaybut the problem is, that's eroding every day. 5O Senators didn't seem concerned about that yesterday, and they need to be held accountable for their actions when they stand for re-election.
They pissed all over the very idea of an independent judiciary, even if they somehow found the idea of protecting a loyalist male from unfounded allegations by a liberal female more pressing.
I don't mind if they're not convicted at the ballot box, but for damn sure, they should be forced to answer and explain their choice to delegimatize the Supreme Court.
They pissed all over the very idea of an independent judiciary, even if they somehow found the idea of protecting a loyalist male from unfounded allegations by a liberal female more pressing.
I don't mind if they're not convicted at the ballot box, but for damn sure, they should be forced to answer and explain their choice to delegimatize the Supreme Court.
okaybut · 56-60, M
@MistyCee The Republicans put him in to shift the Court to the right. If they did not get him in, it is very possible the Democrats would have put someone to the left in the next round (like the one Republicans stole from Obama). They really had little choice. Here is one of the better charts I found.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/9/17537808/supreme-court-brett-kavanaugh-right-cartoon
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/9/17537808/supreme-court-brett-kavanaugh-right-cartoon
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
okaybut · 56-60, M
@MistyCee If the Democrats are smart they will move towards the center and take the majority of seats and control the next placement.
Here is a great article about how the Ontario Liberals (similar to the USA Democrats) are going to find their way back to power after being ousted by a right wing government.
https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/09/29/ontarios-interim-liberal-leader-john-fraser-said-the-party-is-confronting-some-harsh-truths.html
Here is a great article about how the Ontario Liberals (similar to the USA Democrats) are going to find their way back to power after being ousted by a right wing government.
https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/09/29/ontarios-interim-liberal-leader-john-fraser-said-the-party-is-confronting-some-harsh-truths.html
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
@okaybut I'm not sure I'm following you. I've no doubt Kavanaugh is a right leaning judge, but there are plenty of other ones, ones who were on Trump's list, even, who haven't said "what goes around comes around" or written about executive immunity.
This should not, IMO, be seen as a right/left thing. This is a loyal to Trump thing, and it actually ought to bother the hell out of conservatives, since the thing that's being radically destroyed is one of our oldest institutions.
If for no other reason, they ought to to be worried about Kavanaugh's words being true. Unless Trump doesn't have to run for reelection, the next guy might appoint a gal who'll have it in for conservatives.
This bothers me way more than Roe, the Second Amendment, or even dual sovereignty.
This "norm" that Trump violated is pretty significant, and what he's deconstructing is not just the administrative state, but the foundations of our government at their very roots.
This should not, IMO, be seen as a right/left thing. This is a loyal to Trump thing, and it actually ought to bother the hell out of conservatives, since the thing that's being radically destroyed is one of our oldest institutions.
If for no other reason, they ought to to be worried about Kavanaugh's words being true. Unless Trump doesn't have to run for reelection, the next guy might appoint a gal who'll have it in for conservatives.
This bothers me way more than Roe, the Second Amendment, or even dual sovereignty.
This "norm" that Trump violated is pretty significant, and what he's deconstructing is not just the administrative state, but the foundations of our government at their very roots.
@okaybut Roe is likely to continue to die a slow death, and it makes a nice talking point for both sides, but the abortion issue is really just part of the landscape, like a hill that gets taken and retaken by other sides.
This is a fight about power, and federalism is a part of it as well, by the left with desegregation and things like Roe, and now by the right with the Second Amendment, but the battle hasnt bloodied the Court since FDR, and we've never had a man like Trump in office before.
He doesn't give a crap about abortion. He was pro choice once, and he doesn't give a hoot about conservative values or even the country in the long term. Charitably, he's a pragmatist, who's only interest is winning, but by that, he means winning for himself, at all costs, and with zero regard for anyone but himself.
As far as the GOP goes, any candidate Trump puts up in the next three years is likely to continue to kill Roe with small cuts, but Kavanaugh is kind of unique because he's likely to protect Trump while any other conservative judge might take a less favorable view towards protecting a sitting president from judicial process and the use of the pardon power for state crimes.
This move is pure Trump. He got a judge he thinks is personally loyal to him on the Court, and one who he expects will help him down the road.
Honestly, until that last hearing, I was resigned to a pro life leaning judge, but that last hearing showed me we're getting something else entirely.
Kavanaugh himself might not act out the worst non-judicial influences and contempt for the Senate he showed at the hearings when he's on the bench, but the fact that he could show then, and that 50 Senators don't mind it, as long as he's one of them and not one of us, is horrific.
This is a fight about power, and federalism is a part of it as well, by the left with desegregation and things like Roe, and now by the right with the Second Amendment, but the battle hasnt bloodied the Court since FDR, and we've never had a man like Trump in office before.
He doesn't give a crap about abortion. He was pro choice once, and he doesn't give a hoot about conservative values or even the country in the long term. Charitably, he's a pragmatist, who's only interest is winning, but by that, he means winning for himself, at all costs, and with zero regard for anyone but himself.
As far as the GOP goes, any candidate Trump puts up in the next three years is likely to continue to kill Roe with small cuts, but Kavanaugh is kind of unique because he's likely to protect Trump while any other conservative judge might take a less favorable view towards protecting a sitting president from judicial process and the use of the pardon power for state crimes.
This move is pure Trump. He got a judge he thinks is personally loyal to him on the Court, and one who he expects will help him down the road.
Honestly, until that last hearing, I was resigned to a pro life leaning judge, but that last hearing showed me we're getting something else entirely.
Kavanaugh himself might not act out the worst non-judicial influences and contempt for the Senate he showed at the hearings when he's on the bench, but the fact that he could show then, and that 50 Senators don't mind it, as long as he's one of them and not one of us, is horrific.