Are the left the only people who can defeat the nationalist right?

The hard right can only be defeated from the left, not from the centre

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/18/hard-right-left-centre-party-politics-blair-clinton?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Owen Jones is probably the UKs most prominent left journalist. Here he is writing about Anglo american issues and drawing comparisons berween the two situations. There seem to be a lot though they are not universal. His biggest argument here is to say that the liberal Centre have abandoned the needs of the working class and middle class people, giving the right opportunity to expoilt this. Are the left the only people who can redress this?

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Northwest · M

It's complicated.

It's not always safe to assume, that when the rich left, self-indulges, it also means that they're oblivious to the struggles of the lower income and middle income people.

It just means, that not everyone is cut out to be a Mother Theresa.

In the US, the wealthy "left", is not necessarily neo-liberal.

What's more at issue, is the conservative centrists. In the US, they've handed their agenda over to the nationalists, because their voter base felt threatened, by immigrants, crime, taxes, etc. They're not nationalists, or racist, but they're following like sheep.

So, I do agree that defeating nationalism, is going to depend on the left, and this includes the left with money.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Northwest I think affluent centre left people and centre left people generally will have to make a choice.

We do need to work together. Where Owen is coming from is the last three years of a Labour Party civil war in which establishment politicians have done everything possible to undermine Jeremy Corbyn, in spite of his relatively successful performance. I don't think those hostilities are as deep in America because here we have a cultural legacy of an 80s civil war and because the US Democrats never went quite as far from their base.

Some Labour mps are seriously contemplating a split to join pro remain Conservatives. That would be a disaster for the left, however defined.

Northwest · M

@Burnley123 We have a strong rift between the far left and center left in the USA.

The Bernie supporters, are primarily responsible for the Hillary loss. What they did manage to do though, is help shift the party to the left, and forced some anti neo-liberal into the party platform.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Northwest

Personally, I would have sucked it up and voted for Clinton anyway and I believe most of the Bernie supporters did do that. In spite of the DNC reveal.

Its your country though and I imagine you have met Bernie supporters who abstained. Given what happened, I can well understand your frustration.

Northwest · M

@Burnley123 Some states have primaries where people vote, to select a candidate from their party. Some have a caucus, where people gather, in neighborhood locations, selected by their parties (based on where they live), and "caucus", discuss, etc., and at the end, hands are raised and counted.

The latter describes how it's done in my state.

I caucused for Bernie, because I favored his left of center agenda. But when it was all said and done, Hillary won. From that point on, there was no question in my mind, who I was voting for. Specifically, because she added the Bernie education/healthcare/foreign policy to the DNC platform.

At was at that point also, that it became clear to me how disillusioned some of the Bernie people were.

They were actually repeating the exact dame shit, the Trump people were. You name it. Hillary assassinated Vince Foster. Hillary made fun on rape victims. Hillary took joy in defending rapists. Hillary was kidnapping little girls and offering them up as sex slaves, through a pizza joint front. Hillary sold the bulk of US's Uranium to Russia.

It was an eye opener to me.

Exit polls, and other polls, showed that Not too many Bernie supporters, voted for Hillary. That made the difference.

Yes, it's true. The DNC leadership, was against Bernie, but in fact, this was hidden from the rank and file, so it did not reach the actual voters, and the voters picked Hillary.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Northwest I do believe that you should always vote pragmatically and there is no comparison between Hillary and Trump. I disagree with Hillary on foreign policy and I am a huge difference to the left of her but there is a bit of a big difference between a centrist and what Trump is. I would have voted Macron in France too (second round) and I like Macron even less.

You also have to support the party leader, at least somewhat. Labour is different in that we have a standing leadership structure even in opposition. It's called the Shadow Cabinet. We also have about 600,000 members, which makes us a big party. Though that is only one percent of the UK population, its more than the membership of all other UK parties combined. A member has a lot more regular involvement than with US registered supporters. Its a club with regular meetings, campaigns and social events and is active not just during elections.

I joined because of Corbyn and I'm very much on the left but I have never had a problem with working with people on the party right, provided they are also civil, which most of them are. I've canvassed for MPs who've openly attacked the leadership too because I know its for the greater good.

I think the DNC behaviour towards Bernie was awful and its inevitable that it created problems. The smart Berniecrats should have voted Hillary to keep out Trump and then carried the fight afterwards.

Northwest · M

@Burnley123 I completely agree with your last sentence. I also love the shadow cabinet system you have in the UK.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Northwest I like it too and it provides a government in waiting. Though the parliamentary system has a disadvantage in the MPs who are ministers or shadow ministers dont have the time to represent constituents like Senators can.