Skipping over the part where America goes down the crapper, who replaces them?

@swirlie (Stands and applauds someone who truly understands the situation)
Thank you.. From both perspectives would be nice, since in a properly regulated "free market" they should be linked to some extent, trade being an arm of foreign policy. But the ability to supply must run ahead of the management of supply.
Hence , while I see Russian as a possible "brigand" Military power, using its might to access materials and even markets, I dont consider them a fully fledged "power".

@whowasthatmaskedman

".. From both perspectives would be nice, since in a properly regulated "free market" they should be linked to some extent, trade being an arm of foreign policy. But the ability to supply must run ahead of the management of supply".

The United States has never really had a problem with supplying anything to a world market, other than of course, products which they don't have, such as a derivate source of something coming directly from 'other than' American soil in the form of a raw resource needing to be imported from a foreign country, such as a raw material like sweet crude oil for example.

Although the United States exports refined oil products which have been derived from sweet crude oil, America first had to IMPORT that sweet crude, refine it, package it, then send it back out as an export to foreign countries. The reason America has to import sweet crude, is because the quality of crude oil found anywhere within continental USA is of a grade of crude that is considered lower-than or less-than sweet crude. Technically speaking, this means that traditional American crude contains significant amounts of bitumen which is like powdered coal dust when dried. It is identified within the industry as 'dirty crude'. Therefore, as long as America keeps importing sweet crude to the United States, America will be perceived BY the world as being a supplier of derivative products originating from sweet crude, such as premium-brand automobile motor oil. Of course, the whole perception within the American oil marketing industry is based upon a distortion of perception (big fat lie) and the USA is then perceived as having only the very best of raw materials from which to refine the very best of automotive motor oils, which of course is just another form of Americanized 'alternative truth' which America generally applies to most aspects of it's own reality.

The United States actually contributes very little to the agriculture sector in America or globally for that matter, although one could be deluded once again into believing the 'alternative truth' of the American reality when one sees a little American flag-sticker stuck onto a piece of new farm equipment... like a John Deere tractor for example, which is a great American symbol for America's contribution to world agriculture no matter where one looks. Even in the poorest of Third World Nations, one will always find a bunch of John Deere tractors working the field, but never will one find a Japanese-made Kubota tractor of similar capability, yet higher inherent value.

Ironically, the American-owned John Deere tractor company make tractors which are manufactured in Japan, not the USA. The tires are Japanese, the technical instrumentation is Japanese technology, not American technology, the steel and glass found on the tractors are all from Japanese steel foundries and glass plants, not American. Even the rubber tires are of Japanese rubber stock and technology, not Good Year or BF Goodrich which are both starving for business back in America.

So then, the tractor is 90% assembled in Japan by non-Unionized, Japanese assembly line workers, then shipped by boat to California where they are unloaded and then trucked to an American assembly finishing plant. In that plant the 'tin' is fitted to the tractor, which are the fenders, the hood (bonnet for you Brits!) and the operator's seat. All of these components mentioned however, were made in Japan and are shipped in a wooden crate along with the bare-bones tractor when it came to America on the boat.

The only American content therefore, is zero percent of the raw material (because America imports 50% of it's steel from China and 90% of it's aluminum from Canada. No more than 10% of the total labor required for final assembly is actually contributed by real, live Americans on American soil. As mentioned, 90% of the labor was completed in Japan. The finished tractor is then fitted with a little American flag somewhere under the hood (bonnet!), is re-labeled "Made in America", then sent across the country to local farmers, or sent around the world to unsuspecting foreign purchasers of so-called 'American goods and services'.

Again, the Americanized version of truth is lost somewhere within the smoke and mirrors of every transaction. But on the thin veneer surface, it appears as if Mr John Deere America is a grass-roots, well-intentioned, all-American supplier of machinery which supports the world's food chain with the USA appearing to be leading the parade from a global perspective. So does America have any problem with 'supply' of goods to the world? It wouldn't appear so, but the land of milk and honey doesn't appear very creamy from one coast to the other when one takes a drive and really pays attention to the stark reality seen on both sides of the road. There is something missing. And I believe it could probably start with the truth.

But where things take a dirty bloody dart to the right quite unexpectedly most time while under America's watch, is in the management-end of what America appears to be contributing to what America thinks is the world economy. Great Managers of wealth, America is not. In fact, America as a Nation is quite inept at balancing bank accounts and saving even a little for a dirty, shitty day. That ain't part of the culture, which is why on average, every American who is old enough to own a credit card also on average, carries $10k in credit card debt statistically speaking, from one month to the next as a normal way of life. And for the guy or girl who says they have no credit card debt, that means in terms of averages, that someone out there is carrying $20k each month in debt. That mindset is unsustainable, yet that same American mindset is what is managing the country's fiscal responsibility.

From a global perspective, Americans at-large have never been viewed by the rest of the world as being walking 'think-tanks' of genetic perfection per se, as if being the 'chosen ones' from the land of milk and honey, white picket fences and income tax-deductible housing mortgages. Nor does the American banking model represent the epitome of fiscal discipline and solid integrity like the old fashioned Victorian-age banking system of Great Britain use to boast about which by the way, was mistakenly abandoned by the Brits in favor of the clearly inferior US banking protocol.

Because of the illusion of great wealth that has been created within the minds of Americans since the time of Eisenhower, Great Britain wanted-in on the action as well as that perceived opulent wealth which of course could only have been derived from supreme American, home-grown intelligence right?, thereby abandoned their own British system in favor of the greener grass appearing authentically organic on the other side of the fence. Ooops!-moment for Britain.

The only country in the world however, which still uses that old fashioned, Victorian-age banking system of Great Britain, is Canada. That is why Canada, as totally boring and polite as Canada really is in reality, came away totally unscathed during the American-created, global financial meltdown of the world banking industry, which began in 2008 and which the USA has not yet recovered from. Just one more contributing factor for the constant need to raise America's hideous debt ceiling.

So for one to be even remotely convinced, even temporarily convinced during a weak moment of pre-orgasmic social interlude with one's favorite neighbor, that the Great American Machine can manage the world economy let alone manage the interest-debt owed on America's own line-of-credit, is so far outreaching from the realm of rational thought that one should actually be fearful to speak those same thoughts publicly while sober. If one wanted to test the waters however, it would be advisable to show up in the town square with hand-written speech in hand, totally drunk before standing up on the soap box. The fact that one appears drunk is what may save him or her from a well-deserved stoning.

As far as Russia is concerned in terms of being a "fully-fledged power", always keep in mind that he who wields the biggest stick, calls the tune. America just stood up and offered Russia the best seat at the opera. Basically speaking, Russia showed up at the theater unannounced and hoisted America by the scruff of the neck out of it's reserved seat in the front row, as Putin told America to get the fuck out of his seat!

No matter what you want to call Russia, they are now the 'new world order'. Therefore, it doesn't matter what anyone outside Russia thinks! Thanks to the way in which America likes to pretend to manage business, the management of America's ability to supply will be managed for them in the near future.

@swirlie On your final point, I agree.. And no longer being the dominant force in trade deals will undercut the US position as a global power. There is a natural progression in the life of Empires and the US is in its twilight.. Sadly the latest approach will guarantee a hard crash landing, rather than a graceful retirement.

@whowasthatmaskedman

"Sadly the latest approach will guarantee a hard crash landing, rather than a graceful retirement".

I couldn't agree more with you regarding your quoted statement. How long have you known about or at least felt suspect about the truth behind America's true state of financial reality?

Its been a steady progression of steps toward the abyss, since Nixon relaxed the Gold Standard to fund Vietnam, Reagans deregulation opened Pandoras box and since then Two forces have been at work at differing times and speeds. The marketing of debt as an asset, and running government deficits for purposes other than capital works. If you want landmark events, the dot com bubble should have been followed by a recession, but instead we had money pumped into real estate investment and the ninja loans, all the time , more "securitized" debt packaged as investment grade products. That ultimately led to the G.F.C. which Bush Junior bailed the banks out of to soft land. .. But they have not learned a thing and are pulling the same stunt again.. Plus through all of this the banks are milking the investors cow as hard as they can by churning products and taking a commission each time.
Now all the majors have been printing money in a race to the bottom, so no one can see the devaluation.. Except that returns on shares and bonds, have dropped as their relative P/E ratios fall.
Pardon if I missed a couple of points.. I hit the highlights. @swirlie

@whowasthatmaskedman

Missed a couple of points? Are you sure!? I'm keeping score here! You have certainly hit every point which I have become very intimately familiar with over the years, that is for sure! Your accuracy of America's truth is very well stated if you don't mind me saying.

I think that if the USA is going to continue as a global player in the same context as they have contributed over the past 50+ years, some serious 'rules of engagement' must be adopted by America and as dictated by the remainder of the G20 Nations, before America's involvement with the world economy could effectively continue.

I think for one thing, the choice for the Leadership of the USA should not be left entirely in the hands of it's tax paying citizens. Because in reality, the average tax paying American citizen has absolutely no clue of the impact their vote could potentially have on a global scale economically, let alone what effect it could have domestically by keeping coal mines open for business as one example. Although Donald Trump was popular among the American masses-at-large, he absolutely was not popular outside the confines of the American Borders. His delusions of grandeur are only recognized as a home-grown Americanism, which of course has no place on the world stage nor is it condoned.

Therefore, because SO many countries are affected by America's Leadership at the top, those affected countries should also have a vote in the American Electoral process as to 'WHOM' it is that America is trying to vote into Presidential Office.

My suggestion would be that the remaining G20 Nations comprise at least 50% of the vote for America's Presidency, each G20 Nation having only one vote from which to cast, yet making up a maximum of 50% of the vote. The tax paying American citizens should therefore retain the remaining 50% of the deciding vote for America's President.

An analogy of this is, that if your neighbor wants to plant trees along the fence line of your adjoining property, yet the prevailing winds place all the leaves from HIS trees into YOUR backyard each Autumn, then YOU should at least retain 50% of the vote as to where those trees are located on your neighbor's property, as well as the kind of trees that are planted in the first place which will ultimately impact YOUR property very negatively during the course of their lifetime.

The Office of the President of the United States is no longer a local popularity contest among the un-educated, the un-employed, nor the mis-informed of America's population base, nor is that highest Government Office a bitching post for those highly educated American types whom are traditionally too apathetic to get off their asses to vote when called upon by their country.

If the United States wants to survive what is in store for them economically in the next few years, at least half the decision for whom runs the American Economic machine should be taken out of America's hands for their own good.. and of course, respectfully placed elsewhere for the overall good of the remaining G20 Nations and beyond, which include Third World Nations.

Your thoughts?

I have made the joking comment that Running America is much to important to be left to Americans. But..As a joke.. Democracy has its flaws. But flawed or not, it is still better in the long run than any of the alternatives. So, instead of taking it out of the hands of American voters, I suggest with improve the quality of the Voter. Remember that voting franchise has not always been universal. In the original Constitution it was effectively limited to Male Landowners, who as it happened where White.
I do not advocate a return to that system. Just making the point that it is possible to change. I suggest the following. Voting become mandatory. This obvious means massive changes to the access to polling booths. And I think the electoral college system, if it is to be kept, needs to break down to smaller districts, rather than go to a "winner takes all" for a state. Finally. Either scrap political donations and ban them entirely, opting for a government set allocation of media space and time to each candidate@swirlie Or require warning label type announcements clearly identifying the specific donor by name and company.
That lot should make it harder for the vested interests to control the outcome.
I see no point in allowing outside nations to vote in a US election, on the basis that an overseas dumbass is every bit as stupid as an American dumbass.

@whowasthatmaskedman

The "overseas dumbass" you are referring to, was not inferred by my suggestion as being a regular citizen of a country's masses-at-large. I was inferring by my reference to the G20 Nations Vote, as it being a singular vote that would be cast by the Leader of each country whereby each country's President or Prime Minister would then vote under direct consultation with their respective Congress or Parliament.

IF however, you were suggesting that the Leader of another country, being either of overseas origin or a close neighbor to the USA, was a dumbass-Leader who is on par with an equal dumbass currently holding the position of the American Head of State, then I also think that your's would be a rather far reaching assumption to be making in suggesting that there was actually more than one dumbass of equal-dumbness found somewhere else within the cast of G20 Nations.

Insofar as dumbasses go, were you therefore making reference to a country's masses or to a country's Leader?

I was referring to the general population and for the sake of Clarity. I am opposed to any other nation or group standing between the right to vote and elected leaders. The nations people should elect its leaders. Or just declare an empire and forget it.. But where are the checks and balances then?@swirlie

@whowasthatmaskedman

Being opposed as you said, to any other nation or group getting themselves involved in another nation's voting affairs is a very righteous way of pondering the perfect life in a perfect world in my view, but in truth, the absence of what I have suggested to the contrary as it pertains specifically to the USA, is what brought the clown-like, hideous characters like Donald Trump and associates onto the scene. Trump not only negatively affects the USA, he also negatively affects Trade motivation between nations whom have traditionally conducted economic Trade with the USA.

What I am saying to you, is that Americans as a culture, are grossly uneducated politically and are thus totally incompetent as a society to even have the remote wherewithal to actually take the outcome of their vote into account on a global scale prior to casting that vote, let alone take their vote's domestic impact into account with 'how' that vote will affect their own country at the end of the day.

If their vote was ONLY impacting the USA internally, I could see your point. But because their vote impacts how the USA then interacts economically with the rest of the world, the rest of the world should absolutely have the option of tempering a hard-Right mentality of which Trump is self-confirmed as being not even a Republican on record, which is a fact that has been detailed within the books of Trump that have been written since the early `90's.

Therefore, because the American public have once again proven to the world how apathy rules the average American life, at least half the vote for the American Presidency should be taken out of America's hands because of the electoral incompetence that is consistently demonstrated among the American masses which has prevailed for years within the USA since the time of Eisenhower.

If every American got out and voted in a perfect world and the entire American public duked it out between Trump and Clinton, I would simply go away and you would never hear from me again.

But because only 51% of the entire American population even got up off their fat, dumb asses to vote in the Presidential Election in the first place... and of that 51%, 51% of that resultant group voted Republican as statistics have revealed, that also means that only 26% of the entire American population brought Trump into Office.

It is disgusting that the rest of the G20 Nations are being directly affected by the mentality of only 26% of the entire American population! That is absolutely insane and even more absurd than Donald Trump himself is. And statistically speaking, those 26% I make reference to were comprised primarily of un-employed White males whom had not been educated beyond completion of public high school standards. That is a known fact.

AND NOW, you are telling me that you are opposed to any other Nation intervening with the U.S. Electoral process, even though it would be in the world's best interest if a little more intelligence was surgically implanted into at least half the mix for the betterment of all concerned, including the betterment of America's own ineptitude? Really? You really think it's OK for 26% of America's un-educated, un-employed White masses to have essentially hijacked America's integrity as a competing Nation on the world stage of Trade and Commerce, only because they were the ones who actually got out to vote? Explain your position to me, if you will.

Now lets all calm down here. Name calling and insulting a culture because of what some of their business and political leaders have done in the past is both pointless ans stereotyping in the worst way. Sure , there are idiot Americans.. But that holds true for every other nationality. Sure, Trump is a dozen kinds of fool and bad person generally. But I see his election as the next phase in the decline of America, which as an outsider who is somewhat prepared for it, I can view with a certain calm. But without the people to vote him in, (who will pay the highest price for electing him by the way), then the US would continue with Business as usual, which for a time Hilary used as a slogan, which would only have made the eventual demise worse for a larger number. Remember that each effort to delay the recession which should have happened has only built up more pressure behind a creaking dam wall. So while trump is am unmitigated economic disaster, he is in fact primarily Americas disaster.. Not the GFC we already had.. Sadly, GFC mark2 will happen anyway, but was in fact heading for us anyway. However Americas removal of itself as a global trade force will damage America all the more because of this. So in short, Trump is worse for America and probably better for the world than the alternative, which as before would spread the debt and the pain globally.
Thats the background..
Now, The American way of having an unhealthy, under-educated, poorly housed and deprived underclass is going to come back and bite them.. But that cannot see this, yet. Wait until several million poor people with nothing to feed their families decide its OK to use the guns they all own to take what they want from those who have. A break down of Law and Order.. Dreadful.. But, that will be Americas problem, because they either voted you it, or failed to vote against it.
I vote for the government of my own country in a way I hope solves the most problems for the most people. I will not take responsibility for decades of neglect and hatred in a culture I have no place in, holding different core values on how the wealth of the nation should be spent.
What will happen depends on a number of choices that have yet to be made.. But, it is definitely that as much as global trade will be hurt,The rest of the world will cope, and learn and no doubt move onto the next trade empire, probably China, which will no doubt tilt the field to suit themselves. And in truth that may hurt America even more, but wont worry anyone else at all. In the end, life goes on..

@whowasthatmaskedman

OK, I'm calm now... 🌬🔥💨

I hold the same view you describe of America and have been of that same opinion for several years now. I believe however, that the incipient spin America has been in for several decades, will eventually mutate itself into a full spiral dive which will be precipitated by the illusion of the Stock Market finally being realized by younger generations that will follow. From that realization, more of America's truth will begin to unravel across the globe yielding the true value of of America's net-net worth.

Regarding your point.. "Wait until several million poor people with nothing to feed their families decide its OK to use the guns they all own to take what they want from those who have. A break down of Law and Order.. Dreadful.. But, that will be Americas problem, because they either voted for it, or failed to vote against it".

There has already been a book written about that exact eventuality. That book is called "Blood in the Streets" (Author's name not coming to mind at this moment). Perhaps you have read it. Perhaps you wrote it! The essence of the book however, describes the grave current situation in America to be exactly as you too describe it will likely unfold. To survive as an American living anywhere within the USA when this eventuality is finally made manifest at America's own hand, one need not stock-pile food and water in their basement to ensure one's survival, for the most valuable commodity to humankind in America will be ammunition for their firearm.

Case in point, Remington Firearms of the USA just declared bankruptcy protection under Chapter 11 today. They are but one of hundreds of corporations that are in bankruptcy protection across America. Ironically however, they manufacture ammunition for American-made firearms. Let the stockpiling begin! 🕳