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revenant · F
Too much of one or the other is not good imo. No man is an island as the saying goes and we all need support as well as directions from the what..in group..tribe..family ..whatever one might call it. It must be very lonely too. Too much collectivism and there is no responsibility for one's actions, not much progress, not much initiative, more victim to shame tactics, stifflement and you get hammered down like the proverbial nail.
Sicarium · 46-50, M
@revenant That's not what collectivism is though. That's society or family, of being a member of a group. Collectivism takes that a step further and says the group is the thing of importance, whatever that groups is, and that the welfare of the individual is unimportant by comparison. You, as an individual, are completely subservient to the group. The individual is expendable.
So your family or group is more important than you are because you're just an individual and, if you're not benefiting the family or group, you can be removed from that group. If that requires your death, that's ok, because the individual doesn't matter. That's not hyperbole, it's the idea that led to every single collectivist mass murder of the 20th century.
Individualism says the exact opposite. That, yes, individuals naturally form groups. But they join or stay in the group of their own free will and the group is made of individuals. Harm the individual, and you harm the group. The importance is placed on the individual to recognize liberty and free will.
So your family or group is more important than you are because you're just an individual and, if you're not benefiting the family or group, you can be removed from that group. If that requires your death, that's ok, because the individual doesn't matter. That's not hyperbole, it's the idea that led to every single collectivist mass murder of the 20th century.
Individualism says the exact opposite. That, yes, individuals naturally form groups. But they join or stay in the group of their own free will and the group is made of individuals. Harm the individual, and you harm the group. The importance is placed on the individual to recognize liberty and free will.
Sicarium · 46-50, M
@revenant Nah, you expressed it fine. I just think you're seeing a softer side of collectivism that doesn't exist. Society, family, social groups, these things aren't collectivism. They actually form a threat to collectivism; they're a competing group for someone to belong to, competing loyalties. What I think you're calling the happy medium between the two is purely individualism, there's no collectivism there.