people don't actually care about the real true problems out there. its a sad thing. i totally agree with you. i want to be safe in my own country, i want my family, pets, friends, and even my future family to be safe. i want OUR country to be safe. and theres nothing wrong with that.

hey 1961 dave,
I DONT choose hillary over trump or the other way around,
nor to i continue in third party attemtps to make things change,, the system is biased against it.
My real Choice. would be to pick our Executive Officer, for the ability to [i]execute[/i] the laws of the United Staes and the orders of congress. potus is NOT the captain of the nation, he is, as they say in the Navy, "The XO" the first mate, the people, via the congress are the captain. The head of the military can NEVER be the head of state, the way a monarch does.
thanks for the thoughts, I enjoy folks willing to converse, even with those they may disagree with.
the very definition of Civilization.

and i hate when people assume you're racist bc you don't agree with them. like no lol. i love every race, but when you enter this country illegal, you're breaking the law. you come to this country and follow our rules. we follow other countries laws. immigrants are great, but when it comes to illegal immigrants? no. please follow the rules of our country, if you don't there are consequences. just like everyone who breaks the law, they have to be responsible for their actions

@ 1961 dave.
I do not get my information from any Liberal Outlet. I do serious research, based on evidence, not opinion. If you go back and read closely, you will see i am NOT in favor of inviting over lots of persons who's way of life is against ours. France and Germany, and Sweden and many other places have had a horrid time of it. yes, [c=#7700B2]Fundamentalist[/c] Islam wants to convert the world, but then again so does [c=#7700B2]Fundamentalist[/c] Christianity.
My feeling is that we need to avoid foreign entanglements,, as stated in the Monroe doctrine.
as far as Narcissism, Sociopathy and Megalomania go read up on them, not in pop cult, but in academic work. you will find trump matches the first two well and Clinton matches the third.
Both candidates are far from good for the country.. both are in the sway of big money interests
there,, that is the real danger... those that have used money Power, to run our media, our politics and our policy.
as long as Libtard vs RightwingNut is our focus,, whe have been
divided
and conqured

We need to end immigration and expel all illegals and refugees. Close and secure our borders.

@moonlightwolf.....When someone cant defend their position or opinion they resort to calling those who have a different opinion a racist. It's designed to shut down the debate. Don't allow anyone or anything to shut you up. You have a constitutiona right to express your vews and opinions. and remember this, if hou don't use that right hyou mau just lose it. And it's way too precious to lose.

There is NO system that is perfect. As a matter of fact, if we found one that was almost perfect, time would change it's effectiveness.
The US has almost always been a refuge for those who have lost their home, for whatever reason. Our "Justice" system was built on the idea that it was better that many guilty go free, that one innocent be convicted. That idea encompasses the refugee problem. We have many thousands of people who wave little more than what they have on their backs. No more home, job, and people wanting to kill you just because you don't think like the do. And no matter where you go, no one wants you to be there or stay.
We all want to keep our country and families safe. NO ONE wants to "let the terrorists in". But to turn our backs, change the ideals this country was founded on, to protect ourselves, the terrorists have won. They have changed us. And in changing us they have shown the world that we are liars and all the other things that have been said about us over the years, are true.
You may not realize it but one of the reasons, all those refugees want to come here is FREEDOM. Another is that we have always been pictured something like Heaven, the place with streets of gold and everyone lives happily ever after. Back in the early 60's, there were stories in the American press about the abject poverty in Appalachian mountains. One photo showed a family dressed in rags standing in front of their shack, that looked like it would fall over almost anytime. Next to the shack was a Ford Model-T that might move if pushed downhill. The Soviet's thought it would be great to take this photo and show their people how American's really lived. Embarrassing America was their goal. They failed. The people in the Soviet Block saw the photos and said; "Look, even the poorest in America have cars!"

It's a moral dilemma. If you don't take any refugees in, those women and children you care about will die. If you decide to take the whole family including father and 18+yo brothers, there is of risk of letting IS in. If you separately them and take only women and children, there's a chance to have them on welfare for a very long time.

No way Satyr, these immigrants are nothing like immigrants from the past. Which waves of immigrants in the past came from countries with terrorist organizations that hate westerners and would like them all destroyed. Look at the ISIS attacks in France, does that remind you of any immigrants in the past, of course not!. I don't give a Shit if Syrians invented everything we like, I still would not want to invite terrorists here! I don't believe the Lkberal Bullshit about Trump being a narcissist. I believe Hillary is, and I don't believe we can survive her!

I am rather conservative an i know that persons from that part of the world have a very different view, and very different behaviors. to come from that part of the world to a western civilization is indeed asking for real trouble , without even ISIL being involved. But i also belive ins some very liberal valuse,, like universal human rights.
we are doing it wrong. Consider Apple COmputing was invented by a syrian refugee. ( look it up)
we are all the descendants of immigrants. we should be mindful.
the labels liberal and conservative are wedges that are being used to keep americans seeing each other as the enemy.
it is the corporates.. the big money interests.. that are puling the strings and it is thier best interest to keep us in a state of fear, and of war.
Mrs, clinton is indeed a self serving power monger.. but at least she has some sanity, and method.. we can survive her.
Mr Trump 5 times a bankrupt,, a failure at all business but self promotion is actually Very Much in the power of russian money interests.
Oh yea, he test out as a social path/
so vote for a sane but devious person
Or a Narcissistic crazy person

what do YOU think

Just in case you are not aware terrorist attacks are the lowest in US. It's got one of the most stringent background checks compared to any country. So stop being paranoid and fall for this fear mongering and lies being spread.
Btw statistics show that there's 100 times more death on account of gun violence. Over 400000 deaths between 2001-2013 compared to 400 deaths on account of terrorism. And yet it's not serious enough?? Support a guy who is in cahoots with the gun lobby??

Dave, have you happened to notice the libtards must be out wreaking havoc tonight. They sent their flunky.

Typical,BigAsset, you Liberals love saying Shit like fear mongering, that's just idiotic. The fact is that not wanting to allow ISIS members into the U.S. is not fear mongering, it's common sense. What you're doing is being very deceptive. Mentioning us having less terrorist attacks , and stringent background checks have nothing to do with the refugees. They can't do much to check refugees, you don't even have to have a passport to be a refugee. Are you stupid enough to believe that when someone joins ISIS there is a paper trail to follow, or an electronic record to look up? Apparently yo didn't hear what happened in France. If Hillary gets in the event that cost ovet a hundred lives in the club will be common here! Lets keep the terrorist attacks low in the U.S. Lets not invite refugees from the heart of ISIS into our country. You can call common sense paranoia or fear mongering but that's just you trying to twist things. There is no means to screen for ISIS members, that's a farce. If Hilkary gets elected there will be a LOT of ISIS attacks on U.S. soil. By the way you forgot something when you mentioned gun violence statistics. The majority of gun violence in the U.S. is gang related. Instead of attacking the rights of law abiding gun owners, we should be attacking gangs. The gun lobby isn't the problem. Just another way for you to twist the facts, leaving pertinent information out! Trump, the guy that supports the gun lobby wants go crack down on these criminals that are costing lives. Not the law abiding gun owners who are not. When you leave out the facts about gun related crime you're just fear mongering, and spreading lies.

@1961dave says:

[quote][quote]No, there is no way student visas would work out. You can say you know what you're talking about, but if your answers are ridiculous I won't believe it.
[/quote][/quote]

@Laifu1: If you add up all the attacks that happened in the US, and in Europe, they pale in comparison to the 9/11/2001 attacks. What percentage of the attackers, were in the US on student visas? If you answered 100% you win the prize of being informed. How many of them were refugees? The answer is none.

As you pointed out, the simplest way for a terrorist to get in the country, is through a tourist Visa.

Trying to get in as a refugee is an 18-24 months ordeal, and you will likely fail to qualify, if you're an adult male. Check out the San Francisco vetting program.

@SatyrService: Steve Jobs' father, did not come to the US as a refugee, but as a Doctoral student. He comes from a wealthy family. As you pointed out though, he is Syrian and a non-practicing Muslim.

Dave- I get that you have limited intelligence and education, but unlike you I don't talk about things I don't understand. You don't understand how refugees are vetted, and you don't understand how else to come into the country. My suggestion of student visas was to point out how inane your argument actually is. However, there are lots of ways to come here that are far, far easier than coming as a refugee. I never have understood people like you. Your fear isn't even rational. You miss the actual problems and focus on things that aren't actually an issue.
The United States admitted 70,000 refugees in 2013 and granted asylum to 15,000 people. That same year, the Department of Homeland Security processed 173 million admissions for tourists, students, investors, diplomats and other temporary visitors. Many of them are hardly vetted before they enter.

There is particular concern among some lawmakers about the three dozen countries with which the United States has an agreement to waive visas. Citizens of those countries don't need visas to enter the United States, and 21 million of them did so in 2013.
Try doing some research every now and then.

naughtylass- Do you ever have anything to say that is intelligent, well-researched, or pertinent? I don't feel the need to hide behind someone else's picture and insult people because I have nothing worthwhile to contribute. Apparently you do. Flunky? I sure as hell don't speak for anyone else. I don't block people for disagreeing with me. I see it as a challenge. But you have done nothing but hurl insults. All I ask for is one original thought. Surely there is one somewhere in that thing you call a brain.

That's cause d government wants terrorist attacks so they can take more rights from ya under d auspices of keeping you safe

What the Fuck are you talking about. You're not even an adult are you, the things you're saying ate ridiculous. As president she wants to bring in the refugees. Your secretary of state comment makes me feel like I'm talking to an exceptionaly slow third grader. So obviously you don't comprehend that ISIS members don't have records on file, and since there are no records no amount of vetting can find the records that don't exist. The refugees are coming from Syria, that's where ISIS is Einstein! ISIS hates all westerners, they feel westerners should all be killed. That's why the attacks in France. That's why they won't pass up an extremely easy opportunity to get lots if ISIS members into the U.S. You're telling lies as usual. You said that I said gun violence is because of a few, I never said that. I stated the fact that the majority of the gun violence in the U.S. is gang related. The terrorism we're facing is on the account of religious extremists ISIS. They don't need provoked, us being alive is all the reason they need. Why do you bother to post lies,

dave- actually my dear, I know quite a lot about the workings of the State Department, including the Visa section. Benefits of being a diplomat include meeting other diplomats, like the people in charge of giving out visas. Most countries actually pay for their students to study abroad. Since most of the students are working on a post grad degree, age would not be a factor.

Laifu, are you assuming that the ISIS leaders are incapeable of thought.Early in thr migration it would make sense to appear more like normal refugees. Not like what they did in Germany. If Hillaty gets in and theu bring the lsrger quantities in it will look more like Germany.I don't expect any country to have terrorist attacks from refugees until the migration is complete!

That's ok. Sometimes I deserve it. I hope you continue to call me on facts if we disagree.

So basically you don't have any facts to back up any of your comments. If hillary wanted to invite ISIS she would have done that when she was Secretary of state.... If at all she went after them.
Now just like gun violence is on account of a few, so is terrorism on account of a few. They are the problem. It's plain and simple logic. You yourself explained it well.

You're a complete moron Laufu. I understand that it is impossible for the vetting to work. For you to defend vetting proves that you lack intelligence. Do yo actually think that when someone joins ISIS they register online, or file forms somewhere? They don't want to be know. There is no way tofor vetting to work, they can't find non existent records.
When refugees come, it's assumed that they are refugees. They don't have to have passports. I'm sure lots have no paperwork. Your telling me that it's easier for them to get student visas, another obviously idiotic thought of yours.
For a student visa they have to have, passports, they have to bring transcripts, diplomas, and they myst gave a form signed from the school that's accepting them. I would be willing to bet your typical USIS member could not come up with this stuff. You thinking this is an easiet route for them is a ln incredible dusplay of stupidity!

"Vetting is just a farce to fool the American people." And you KNOW this because you work vetting refugees? You work for the State Department?
Armchair quarterbacks have been telling teams all over the world what they're doing wrong but very very few have ever helped, because they don't know what is actually going on.

babyboomer- thank you. I disagree with you on just about everything, but I really appreciate the fact that you are a good person. You come across as kind, and you don't attack people personally. If anything, I have been far worse to you then you have ever been to me.

Satyr with you being aware of how problematic the refugees are in other countries. I'm surprised you would choose Hillary over Trump. I feel the refugee problem is the biggest issue this election. Very clearly Hillary and her vetting farce is a very bad thing fir the country.

Well rather be a third grader and have facts then be an Einstein and give a general lecture without any facts.
What makes you think that the security apparatus will allow in refugees who don't have verifiable records?? What's your basis for making that claim??

No it wouldn't laifu, they have to enroll in schools prove gheir accepted, probably have feposits. Much much more difficult, and much more costly, and a lot would not be of the age you would expect fir students. That was a ridiculous comment!

This system is a lot less than not perfect. Vetting is just a farce to fool the American people. There is no effectiveness! The only way they'te gonna catch a terrorist trying to get in is if they happen to be on the terror watch list. The U.S. has always been a refuge for those who lost their home, although, there has never been the threat of an extremist terrorist organization slipping in with them. Letting the refugees in is a trade off. The refugees are safe, but Americans die instead. It would be like France, except there would be lots of attacks happening all the time. The question is easy, do we protect our own, or sacrifice them for the refugees.

Yes she is, people think nothing like that can happen, but she has plans that will cause terrible things to happen

I know because I'm capaple of logic and common sense. ISIS is a terrorist organization that is of course more effective if people don't know who they are. It's not unteasonable to assume that when someone joins ISIS they don't register online as an ISIS member,or go down to the county office for ISIS registration.
Of course there is no record if them joining, and of course if a record does not exist, a record will not be found, therefore vetting is impossible unless they're using magic 8 balls.

Yes that's actually true, because there is no way to screen them. It just can't be done, ISIS will enter the U.S. we need Trump!

Yes I don't believe your most recent comments about student visas! It was what you really thought.Anyone who is so incredibly stupid that they believe vetting can work isn't capeable of logical thought! I didn't go to college, but I have had my intelligence tested. I have a great ability to think and understand. You very clearly don't. You manage to yout your education and show your lack of intelligence at the same time l, very impressive. You have no comprehension if what's going on!

You really have comprehension issues, this is my last one, I have to sleep. They will not be able to identify anyone as an ISIS member because when someone joins ISIS, a terroris organization which of course is more effective if it's members have anonimity. The membbers don't register online as ISIS members. There is of course no record of them joining ISIS. If there is no record they can't find a record, it does not exist. They cannot screen out ISIS members.

Yes Dave, the libtards will wake up from their stupor and regurgitate their usual bulls*it. yawn

And the security apparatus is so so stupid they will invite them right in!!! Awesome :)
Goodnight

Laifu after that student visa comment it really surprises me to hear you speak of intelligent things.

Laifu, we may disagree on many things, but I like your convincing arguments to questions.

lol, I really liked the comment that it would be easier to come un in student visas. That was so nonsensical!

dave- did you read my response? I happen to know what I'm talking about.

satyr- very intelligent and well thought out answer.

Dave- Did you even read everything I put? Because I am willing to bet you didn't. And seriously, I am tired of having a discussion with you. As I said before, student visas were simply one fucking example. However, it does show me that you have never stepped foot on a college campus.

You're welcome Satyr!

Have you perhaps seen that the Syrian refugees who have been allowed into the US are women and children or families? Perhaps you missed that.

No, there is no way student visas would work out. You can say you know what you're talking about, but if your answers are ridiculous I won't believe it.

It would be a hell of a lot easier to just come in on student visas. Pretty sure ISIS can figure that out too

Read John Perkins. Economic HitMen.

We should cancel those too.

Never.