This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
Northwest · M
In his defense, he did tweet earlier today, that he was going to call the President of Turkey, before heading out to Golfing, and after Golfing "Then back to Mar-a-Lago for talks on bringing even more jobs and companies back to the USA!"
LegendofPeza · 61-69, M
@Northwest Yep , he also said he was going to bring peace to the Middle East ,in between the golf apparently. What a guy.
jackjjackson · M
✅. @LegendofPeza
jackjjackson · M
Is that more or less tweets than you have fired off lol? @Northwest
Northwest · M
@LegendofPeza Peace to the Middle East? Oh, no, the President was confused about some issue related to Turkish coffee, and he needed Erdogan's opinion.
The Middle East peace thing is under control, for a couple of reasons.
1) Jared Kushner is in charge of that dossier, and he has no clue.
2) Putin had Assad over on Monday, and on Wednesday he had the Turkish President and the Iranian President. Between the two sets of meetings, all the major players are now in agreement on what needs to be done, and part of that agreement, was to send a Play-Doh set, to keep Jared entertained, while the adults figure things out.
The Middle East peace thing is under control, for a couple of reasons.
1) Jared Kushner is in charge of that dossier, and he has no clue.
2) Putin had Assad over on Monday, and on Wednesday he had the Turkish President and the Iranian President. Between the two sets of meetings, all the major players are now in agreement on what needs to be done, and part of that agreement, was to send a Play-Doh set, to keep Jared entertained, while the adults figure things out.
Northwest · M
@jackjjackson I did not tweet today. In fact, I have not tweeted since the Bush administration. I have multiple "development" Twitter accounts, that I use to develop applications that collect data from Twitter.
jackjjackson · M
Let’s suppose that is all true. Is there a recipe possible for Middle East peace? @Northwest
Northwest · M
@jackjjackson Yes, of course there. We're just no willing to pursue it. President Obama had a good grip on it. Bernie understood it well. Hillary had no fucking clue, but agreed to allow the Bernie side to take point (had she become President).
As a clue to how clueless our President is, you need to watch the press appearances with the Israeli Prime Minister, and the Lebanese Prime Minister.
As a clue to how clueless our President is, you need to watch the press appearances with the Israeli Prime Minister, and the Lebanese Prime Minister.
jackjjackson · M
I’ll program my DVR. What is the recipe? @Northwest
Northwest · M
@jackjjackson the recipe is simple. The players must be told that they need to compromise, because mommy and daddy are not going to bat for them, unconditionally. The details are a bit more complicated, but not impossible.
jackjjackson · M
Players? Or would the US telling Israel that alone do the trick? I’d suspect Israel wouldn’t care for the subsequent peace terms that would engender? Personally I don’t see the “patron nations” or the remaining Middle East countries doing the same.
One of my favorite plans would be to simply buy Israel and buy a lot of land (say ten times the size of Israel) in Canada and pay to relocate the Israelis. While initially that may seem expensive I believe it’s a huge money saver thst May even save a few lives. Not that it’s likely to happen. @Northwest
One of my favorite plans would be to simply buy Israel and buy a lot of land (say ten times the size of Israel) in Canada and pay to relocate the Israelis. While initially that may seem expensive I believe it’s a huge money saver thst May even save a few lives. Not that it’s likely to happen. @Northwest
Northwest · M
@jackjjackson Until a win-win proposition is presented, the conflict is never going to stop, because the party that feels screwed, will either not accept it, or re-visit the issue when it could.
The only Arab entity that counts is the Palestinian Authority. In 1967, when it became clear to Moshe Dayan, that Israel is going to take the West Bank, the Golan Heights and Sinai, he went for it, because he thought Israel could then turn around, and offer the territory back, in return for a permanent, and real peace.
50 years later, Egypt has the Sinai back, Syria is embroiled in a war, so the Golan issue can be put on the backburner for now, and the Palestinian Authority is the key player.
From the Israeli side, the settlements are the key issue. The US publicly complains about settlements, but until the US takes control of it Middle East policy, from AIPAC, Israel is not going to accept any compromises. Both Democrats and Republicans have allowed this to continue, and the Israeli hawks play the guilt card, on people like me. Some of us don't buy it.
There's a bit more to it of course, but it takes the US to create an environment where the players will accept compromise. Israel is further emboldened by the Saudis desire to castrate Iran, creating an alliance between Saudi and Israel. Long term though, my concern is for the Israelis, not the current Israeli government. Sooner or later, the balance may change, and at that point, it would be too late to compromise.
Relocate Israel to Canada? You're kidding, right?
The only Arab entity that counts is the Palestinian Authority. In 1967, when it became clear to Moshe Dayan, that Israel is going to take the West Bank, the Golan Heights and Sinai, he went for it, because he thought Israel could then turn around, and offer the territory back, in return for a permanent, and real peace.
50 years later, Egypt has the Sinai back, Syria is embroiled in a war, so the Golan issue can be put on the backburner for now, and the Palestinian Authority is the key player.
From the Israeli side, the settlements are the key issue. The US publicly complains about settlements, but until the US takes control of it Middle East policy, from AIPAC, Israel is not going to accept any compromises. Both Democrats and Republicans have allowed this to continue, and the Israeli hawks play the guilt card, on people like me. Some of us don't buy it.
There's a bit more to it of course, but it takes the US to create an environment where the players will accept compromise. Israel is further emboldened by the Saudis desire to castrate Iran, creating an alliance between Saudi and Israel. Long term though, my concern is for the Israelis, not the current Israeli government. Sooner or later, the balance may change, and at that point, it would be too late to compromise.
Relocate Israel to Canada? You're kidding, right?
jackjjackson · M
I’m wondering if it’s already too late for compromising. The Canada thing is mostly kidding. A small part is based on my feeling everyone else over there won’t be happy until Israel vanishes which could be in a vapor cloud. Moving Israel to a nice larger place is a better alternative to the vaporization. @Northwest
Northwest · M
@jackjjackson Israel's hawks want you to believe that everyone wants Israel gone. This is not true. There's a lot of misinformation out there, on all sides. For instance, the European Jews, did not steal most of the lands they got in Israel. Those lands were not even "owned" by Palestinians. A couple of very wealthy Christian Lebanese families, owned large swaths of land, given to them by the Ottomans, for being collaborators when the Ottomans occupied the area. The Jewish Agency started purchasing land, and giving it to European Jews, fleeing anti-Semite Europe.
The cold war, not local regimes, is mostly responsible for prolonging the conflict. Today, Islamic nations, are outraged by Israel's control of the Dome of the Rock, one of Islam's holiest places, but I'm sure it could be worked out in a compromise. Indonesians, have nothing in common with Arabs (to name just one nation).
Pretty complicated stuff, but the recipe is simple.
The cold war, not local regimes, is mostly responsible for prolonging the conflict. Today, Islamic nations, are outraged by Israel's control of the Dome of the Rock, one of Islam's holiest places, but I'm sure it could be worked out in a compromise. Indonesians, have nothing in common with Arabs (to name just one nation).
Pretty complicated stuff, but the recipe is simple.
jackjjackson · M
My guess is we don’t see peace in our lifetimes. What seems logical or simple on the outside often is not on the inside where passions run hot. Take the Dome issue. There will be no compromise ever on that. @Northwest
Northwest · M
@jackjjackson I never thought we would see a re-unified Germany either, but it happened. Same with the collapse of the Soviet Union.
There is a simple compromise for the Holy sites: create an international treaty, to demilitarize that part of Jerusalem, and allow access to everyone, with strict security protocols in place.
It's a downward spiral. Israel has no incentive to compromise, as long as we don't allow any compromise, the Palestinian territories are subjected to an apartheid existence, radicals use that as recruitment fodder, and so on and so forth.
Abbas is someone who can lead his people to a peaceful existence, but he needs someone to toss him a bone. Arafat was corrupt to the core, and he always fought for his privileges until the last Palestinian, selling his people to the highest bidder.
Netanyahu wants to replace Palestinians in the West Bank, with Jewish settlers. We're no longer even pretending to block him. He's delighted that the US is now back to its "oil first" agenda. The only problem this time around, is that the system of despots that kept the region "stable", is no longer there.
There are plenty of other moving pieces, but change can happen top down, if we care enough to make it happen. It's not going to under a Trump presidency.
There is a simple compromise for the Holy sites: create an international treaty, to demilitarize that part of Jerusalem, and allow access to everyone, with strict security protocols in place.
It's a downward spiral. Israel has no incentive to compromise, as long as we don't allow any compromise, the Palestinian territories are subjected to an apartheid existence, radicals use that as recruitment fodder, and so on and so forth.
Abbas is someone who can lead his people to a peaceful existence, but he needs someone to toss him a bone. Arafat was corrupt to the core, and he always fought for his privileges until the last Palestinian, selling his people to the highest bidder.
Netanyahu wants to replace Palestinians in the West Bank, with Jewish settlers. We're no longer even pretending to block him. He's delighted that the US is now back to its "oil first" agenda. The only problem this time around, is that the system of despots that kept the region "stable", is no longer there.
There are plenty of other moving pieces, but change can happen top down, if we care enough to make it happen. It's not going to under a Trump presidency.
jackjjackson · M
Those are like the NYT crossword puzzle compared to the Israel issue. I wonder if in twenty five years when oil is obsolete whether anything will change the dynamics. @Northwest