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Is the U.S.A becoming like Nazi Germany?

I remember reading a book about Nazi Germany and how they used people who perished in the concentration camps body matter as ingredients to make furniture, soaps and various other domestic products.


It is so funny now the same thing is happening now, the only difference is they used aborted baby fetuses, as ingredients in products, not for domestic products but in food drinks and cosmetic products without our knowledge.


Now a law has been passed secretly in the U.S.A government the legalization of FEMA camps. Something that is no different than the concentration camps in Germany and they are already building many around the country. Do you have a clear picture where this is leading to?
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Alchemy5150 · 41-45, M
We've been flirting with fascism since Woodrow Wilson and the rise of progressivism. While Nazi Germany is a bit of a stretch, we do champion large intrusive government, cult of personality, collective scapegoating, and ends justify the means philosophy. I believe a better assessment of where we are going would be something similar to Huxley's "Brave New World." The type of fascism we seem to champion is a nice, well-meaning form where people are oppressed for their own good and society is run by teams of bureaucrats and experts with "good intentions". Where "compassion" is measured by how willing an individual is to sacrifice their rights for the promised benefit of the collective.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
Yes...because progressivism which includes rights for ethnic minorities, gay people and women is the exact same as Fascism - which is against rights for ethnic minorities, gay people and women.
Alchemy5150 · 41-45, M
No, progressivism is not exactly the same as fascism, however, it shared a similar philosophy. And no, progressivism was not created to ensure rights for minorities. This is something which was adopted much later (and the idea of "rights" here is fallacious in that you seem to think that a right is something which is given by the state). Progressivism, as it was conceived was the idea that society must be treated as a collective and directed by experts and leaders with vision. It was the idea that the state should assume a much larger role in the economy and the lives of individuals. It was the idea that, through Eugenics, society could be "improved". It was the idea that only through collectivism could society progress. After this started to become unpalatable post WW2, it was repackaged and sold as a champion of minority "rights", when in reality, it's a philosophy which only cares about expanding the power of the state.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
No, sorry. Fascism is a far right wing ideology that seeks to return society to a mythical ethnically/racially pure state where basically a god-king rules. This is the direct opposite of what the left is.

You makes this claim of "collectivism" as the only criteria, but I've seen Libertarians support the Alt-Right, who are actual fascists and Nazis.
Alchemy5150 · 41-45, M
LOL Fascism is far right huh? So...a large welfare state is far right? Collectivist ideology is far right? Top-down economics is far right? Let's define terms here. The right, as in classical liberalism, champions individual rights, self-ownership, free-market economics, and private property. Fascism promotes the group or society over the individual, feels that the state should have the final say over a person's body/wealth/property, rejects the market in favor of top-down control, and routinely seizes private property...or at the very least has final say in it's use. Do those sound similar?

And simply because people call themselves Libertarians does not actually make them so.
Alchemy5150 · 41-45, M
Go and read about the rule of Otto Von Bismark if you want to find the roots of modern fascism and it's American counterpart. Then read about the crimes and overt racism of the early progressives.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@Alchemy5150: You literally have no knowledge of Political Science or Civics do you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Fascism is for nationalism - Marx was for internationalism. Fascism worked with business leaders as part of government - Marx was for nationalization of business and putting it in the hands of the working class. Fascism is economically centrists, socially far-right. Marxism is socially and economically left wing. A

The most tireless fighters against fascism were far-left, and still are. While you Lolbertarians actively flirt with the far-right, we're actually marching against them and defending minorities.

You might want to read what fascism's tenants are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Tenets

Fascism champions discrimination against minorities, nationalism, age and gender roles.
Alchemy5150 · 41-45, M
@basilfawlty89: Yeah...how about try reading actual books rather than just wikipedia. And how about not resorting to ad homenim...it betrays the weakness of your arguments, such as they are.

For example, your posted quotes here prove nothing. Marx was for internationalism in that he believe that simply being a worker would unite people from other countries. The Fascists (who were all originally devout socialists I might add) felt that this was the main flaw in Marxist philosophy. They hypothesized that people felt more kinship to their fellow countrymen than random workers across an ocean. Hence: the nationalism part of Fascism. And fascism did not "work" with business leaders (though there were exceptions) so much as it colluded with them and coerced small business (corporatism). Since the fascists rejected a free-market, but also rejected the soviet model as foreign, they felt that only a collusion with private business and the state for the benefit of the collective society was logical.
What exactly makes fascism economically centrist? How are you defining centrist here? Many fascists clung to their socialist ideology and felt that capitalism was a cancer upon society or a tool of the rich to oppress others. Are you suggesting that simply because they did not apply pure socialism to their controlled economies that they were somehow centrists?

And while it's true that the Marxists violently opposed the fascists, you are assuming their reasons for doing so. Marxism and Fascism were both mutations/bastardizations of socialism. Pure socialists referred to them both as heretics. This was not a battle of left vs right ideology, regardless of what Stalin told people after the fact. This was a battle of two different strains of socialist philosophy which shared common ideology, but had two different approaches to it's application.

You might want to read a bit more on the history and philosophical origins of both fascism, and socialism during the early 20th century.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
I can reference you actual books. All you likely will reference me is a bunch of tripe from Milton Friedman and Ludwig von Mises and Rand. This would be the same Rand who praised the Genocide of Native Americans.

Fascists hated Socialism as much as Capitalism, they were Third Position - i.e class collaboration as opposed to the class warfare of Marxism. They believed that business leaders had a right to work with government to control the masses for the nation. Marxism seeks worker control of the workplace - those who do the work, receive the profits.

Notice how no scholar except Libertarian ones claim Fascism is left wing? There's a good reason for that.
Alchemy5150 · 41-45, M
@basilfawlty89: lol at calling Von Mises tripe. Have you ever read any Von Mises or Hayek? Yeah, those pesky people who promote such things as economics based upon voluntary exchange and freedom of choice..free from state force or coercion...why they're just mad. Only insane people would want to promote free-market competion and property rights so inovation and invention can thrive. What nonsense. State force and violence is much better. Systems where benevolent leaders extract wealth from the productive to bribe the unproductive with "free stuff" are so much more ethical. Systems where competion is removed and people are forced to purchase products from a centralized monopoly always ensure not only freedom, but the best product for the best price too....because nobody knows how to be frugal and provide the best service for your buck like government. Yep. The best of the best those bureaucrats are.

But back to fascism, here's a simple question for you: of what ideologies/political affiliations did all the major fascists come out of (and in many cases still have allegiance for)? For example Mussolini was a high prominent intellectual in what doctrine?