Top | Newest First | Oldest First
ArishMell · 70-79, M
Are you writing from Beijing?
What's happening to the Uyghurs was revealed to the West by British journalists, not the USA's intelligence agency; and by very courageous Chinese themselves.
It is enforced assimiliation at the cost of their own culture; no different in principle to what the colonists who founded what they called Canada, the USA and Australia tried to do to those territories' own inhabitants. Nor to how the Swiss tried to rid their country of their Romany population in the 1940s-60s.
There is no humane reason to do what is being done. Teaching the Uyghurs the Chinese language and modern studies like Maths and Science, is one thing, but this programme goes much further; and notably the Chinese government is desperate to keep it secret.
There may be "mosques everywhere" in some parts of China, and I think there are some Christian churches, but how large are their congregations? How much are they watched and controlled? These are not even the native faiths of China anyway.
The "official line" of any dictatorship including China, is what its own government wants you to believe, not what the American Christian missionaries might say, even if there are any in China. I very much such characters would be allowed in, and it is very difficult and dangerous even for proper journalists to find what is going on in that vast nation, if the Party does not want you to know.
... To know such things as Beijing's deliberate abandoning of a formal agreement it made to leave Hong Kong more or less as it was when Britain hand it back to China. It has been suppressing dissent there as assiduously as in the rest of China.
.... To know about the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989.... (That has been completely expunged from any public knowledge in China itself, and any mention by outsiders or Chinese alike would be met by flat denial.)
You may be a spokesman for the Beijing government but you can't hide everything!
What's happening to the Uyghurs was revealed to the West by British journalists, not the USA's intelligence agency; and by very courageous Chinese themselves.
It is enforced assimiliation at the cost of their own culture; no different in principle to what the colonists who founded what they called Canada, the USA and Australia tried to do to those territories' own inhabitants. Nor to how the Swiss tried to rid their country of their Romany population in the 1940s-60s.
There is no humane reason to do what is being done. Teaching the Uyghurs the Chinese language and modern studies like Maths and Science, is one thing, but this programme goes much further; and notably the Chinese government is desperate to keep it secret.
There may be "mosques everywhere" in some parts of China, and I think there are some Christian churches, but how large are their congregations? How much are they watched and controlled? These are not even the native faiths of China anyway.
The "official line" of any dictatorship including China, is what its own government wants you to believe, not what the American Christian missionaries might say, even if there are any in China. I very much such characters would be allowed in, and it is very difficult and dangerous even for proper journalists to find what is going on in that vast nation, if the Party does not want you to know.
... To know such things as Beijing's deliberate abandoning of a formal agreement it made to leave Hong Kong more or less as it was when Britain hand it back to China. It has been suppressing dissent there as assiduously as in the rest of China.
.... To know about the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989.... (That has been completely expunged from any public knowledge in China itself, and any mention by outsiders or Chinese alike would be met by flat denial.)
You may be a spokesman for the Beijing government but you can't hide everything!
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ArishMell I assume your post is addressed to me rather than to the OP.
No, I am writing you from my home here in the USA. I am an American, not woke but conservative and apolitical. This doesn't mean I am disinterested in what US politicians are doing to our nation.
What's happening to the Uyghurs was revealed to the West by British journalists, not the USA's intelligence agency; and by very courageous Chinese themselves.
Journalists, British as well as American, are paid to do their jobs in telling stories. You can always find courageous Chinese revealing bad stuff, about China, to the West for cash, a US green card, or permanent residency in the UK (most of the CIA-recruited rioters in Hong Kong are now residing in Canada).
Enforced assimilation is a bit harsh in characterizing what western colonialists did all over the world from the Mid-East, South America, Africa, India, and East Asia. Christian missionaries, particularly the Catholic Church, played a big part is facilitating the assimilation of western values thru the provision of hospitals and schools to the generally impoverished local populations.
There is no humane reason to do what is being done. Teaching the Uyghurs the Chinese language and modern studies like Maths and Science, is one thing, but this programme goes much further; and notably the Chinese government is desperate to keep it secret.
There is nothing secretive in Xinjiang which is open to tourism. China promotes tourism and welcomes people-to-people exchanges in the effort to bring about a cohesive world.
Christianity is generally well-received among Chinese, not only in China but throughout the diaspora including the USA. Islam arrived in China in the seventh century and gained a strong foothold thru the Mongols in the 13h century. Islam runs deep in the Hui ethnic group.
China is well aware of US mischief in the destabilization of foreign governments. China is now well-equipped to surveil every foreign intelligence asset lurking in China in the guise of religious missionaries, journalists, academics, businessmen, and every other functionary we can invent. If you are not allowed into China, then you are up to no good. We do the same with regard to visitors coming to the US, and we screen every visa applicant in their home country.
Suppressing dissent in Hong Kong? I was there when the riots erupted. Beijing did nothing and the People's Liberation Army (PLA) stayed within its garrison. Hong Kong's police dealt with the turmoil incited by the CIA. Lives were destroyed when hundreds of mom and pop businesses folded due to the turmoil. Rentals were high and nobody could afford to not work for even a day to stay afloat. A friend of mine, an American expat married to a Hong Kong woman, lost everything - a chain of half a dozen health food stores. When the riots subsided, and the extradition law allowing cases to be tried in Beijing was passed, the US and British consulates removed hundreds of spies (foreign service officers) from Hong Kong and Macau to avoid their getting tried in Beijing for espionage and shot.
Students were not killed in the Tiananmen Square but there was a CIA engineered riot near the Square involving killing of Chinese PLA soldiers and workers.
The Beijing Government is of no interest to me. My concern is the US Government.
Are you writing from Beijing?
No, I am writing you from my home here in the USA. I am an American, not woke but conservative and apolitical. This doesn't mean I am disinterested in what US politicians are doing to our nation.
What's happening to the Uyghurs was revealed to the West by British journalists, not the USA's intelligence agency; and by very courageous Chinese themselves.
Journalists, British as well as American, are paid to do their jobs in telling stories. You can always find courageous Chinese revealing bad stuff, about China, to the West for cash, a US green card, or permanent residency in the UK (most of the CIA-recruited rioters in Hong Kong are now residing in Canada).
It is enforced assimiliation at the cost of their own culture; no different in principle to what the colonists who founded what they called Canada, the USA and Australia tried to do to those territories' own inhabitants. Nor to how the Swiss tried to rid their country of their Romany population in the 1940s-60s.
Enforced assimilation is a bit harsh in characterizing what western colonialists did all over the world from the Mid-East, South America, Africa, India, and East Asia. Christian missionaries, particularly the Catholic Church, played a big part is facilitating the assimilation of western values thru the provision of hospitals and schools to the generally impoverished local populations.
There is no humane reason to do what is being done. Teaching the Uyghurs the Chinese language and modern studies like Maths and Science, is one thing, but this programme goes much further; and notably the Chinese government is desperate to keep it secret.
There is nothing secretive in Xinjiang which is open to tourism. China promotes tourism and welcomes people-to-people exchanges in the effort to bring about a cohesive world.
There may be "mosques everywhere" in some parts of China, and I think there are some Christian churches, but how large are their congregations? How much are they watched and controlled? These are not even the native faiths of China anyway.
Christianity is generally well-received among Chinese, not only in China but throughout the diaspora including the USA. Islam arrived in China in the seventh century and gained a strong foothold thru the Mongols in the 13h century. Islam runs deep in the Hui ethnic group.
The "official line" of any dictatorship including China, is what its own government wants you to believe, not what the American Christian missionaries might say, even if there are any in China. I very much such characters would be allowed in, and it is very difficult and dangerous even for proper journalists to find what is going on in that vast nation, if the Party does not want you to know.
China is well aware of US mischief in the destabilization of foreign governments. China is now well-equipped to surveil every foreign intelligence asset lurking in China in the guise of religious missionaries, journalists, academics, businessmen, and every other functionary we can invent. If you are not allowed into China, then you are up to no good. We do the same with regard to visitors coming to the US, and we screen every visa applicant in their home country.
... To know such things as Beijing's deliberate abandoning of a formal agreement it made to leave Hong Kong more or less as it was when Britain hand it back to China. It has been suppressing dissent there as assiduously as in the rest of China.
Suppressing dissent in Hong Kong? I was there when the riots erupted. Beijing did nothing and the People's Liberation Army (PLA) stayed within its garrison. Hong Kong's police dealt with the turmoil incited by the CIA. Lives were destroyed when hundreds of mom and pop businesses folded due to the turmoil. Rentals were high and nobody could afford to not work for even a day to stay afloat. A friend of mine, an American expat married to a Hong Kong woman, lost everything - a chain of half a dozen health food stores. When the riots subsided, and the extradition law allowing cases to be tried in Beijing was passed, the US and British consulates removed hundreds of spies (foreign service officers) from Hong Kong and Macau to avoid their getting tried in Beijing for espionage and shot.
.... To know about the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989.... (That has been completely expunged from any public knowledge in China itself, and any mention by outsiders or Chinese alike would be met by flat denial.)
Students were not killed in the Tiananmen Square but there was a CIA engineered riot near the Square involving killing of Chinese PLA soldiers and workers.
You may be a spokesman for the Beijing government but you can't hide everything!
The Beijing Government is of no interest to me. My concern is the US Government.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@sree251 You are very anti -USA and very pro-Chinese, that's why I wondered exactly where you are.
I am not saying the USA is perfect: it spent much of the latter half of the last century trying to run the world, often with disastrous consequences; but that does not excuse China's actions.
I am not saying the USA is perfect: it spent much of the latter half of the last century trying to run the world, often with disastrous consequences; but that does not excuse China's actions.
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
ArishMell · 70-79, M
Since when have Xi Jin-Ping and Vladimir Putin added Arabic names to their own?
They have their own dogmatic reasons for hating the USA - and much of "The West" generally - but neither is Arabic, and neither are they Moslems.
Indeed, the anti-religious Chinese Government's victims include the Uyghurs, largely just for being Moslem.
They have their own dogmatic reasons for hating the USA - and much of "The West" generally - but neither is Arabic, and neither are they Moslems.
Indeed, the anti-religious Chinese Government's victims include the Uyghurs, largely just for being Moslem.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ArishMell
For your information, the Chinese Government has the same secular policy as the US: separation of church from state. Islam is a part of the Chinese Hui culture for 1000 years.
Indeed, the anti-religious Chinese Government's victims include the Uyghurs, largely just for being Moslem.
For your information, the Chinese Government has the same secular policy as the US: separation of church from state. Islam is a part of the Chinese Hui culture for 1000 years.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@sree251 Thankyou but that does not remove anything from my point.
That the People's Republic of China separates Church from State is pretty much as many countries do, but the difference is why, and what is the official line on religion.
The Beijing government is doing its damnedest to wipe out the Uyghur culture - not by wiping out the Uyghurs as using the word "genocide" would mean and we know some people do thoughtlessly bandy about, but by enforced assimilation to the approved Chinese way of life. That includes suppressing their faith.
I don't know the reason for the policy but I do wonder if it is simple fear of any form of belief not that of authority. Oddly, despite plenty of condemnation from nominally-Christian / secular nations (though the Chinese government just shrugs it off and denies what it is doing) there seems very little criticism from the Muslim theocracies who are usually so ultra-sensitive about any attacks on Islam.
That the People's Republic of China separates Church from State is pretty much as many countries do, but the difference is why, and what is the official line on religion.
The Beijing government is doing its damnedest to wipe out the Uyghur culture - not by wiping out the Uyghurs as using the word "genocide" would mean and we know some people do thoughtlessly bandy about, but by enforced assimilation to the approved Chinese way of life. That includes suppressing their faith.
I don't know the reason for the policy but I do wonder if it is simple fear of any form of belief not that of authority. Oddly, despite plenty of condemnation from nominally-Christian / secular nations (though the Chinese government just shrugs it off and denies what it is doing) there seems very little criticism from the Muslim theocracies who are usually so ultra-sensitive about any attacks on Islam.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ArishMell
The official line on religion is counter-espionage. American Christian missionaries had been caught in the business of inciting unrest.
Are you spouting malicious information disseminated by the US State Department? Sinizication is a natural process of Chinese cultural assimilation to bring about a cohesive society in China. Uyghur cultural practices and language are allowed to flourish along with those of other ethnic groups, all of which amount to only 8% of China's population of 1.4 billion. Han Chinese is the main ethic group (92%). Assimilation is necessary for survival in China if Uyghur children want to survive alongside Han children in their social and intellectual development in China's rapidly transforming society. We allow the Sioux, Apache, and other natives to languish in their reservations supported by casinos. Is that a way to destroy them?
I don't know the reason for the policy but I do wonder if it is simple fear of any form of belief not that of authority. Oddly, despite plenty of condemnation from nominally-Christian / secular nations (though the Chinese government just shrugs it off and denies what it is doing) there seems very little criticism from the Muslim theocracies who are usually so ultra-sensitive about any attacks on Islam.
Muslim nations know that there is no malicious treatment of Uyghurs in China. China has mosques everywhere.
That the People's Republic of China separates Church from State is pretty much as many countries do, but the difference is why, and what is the official line on religion.
The official line on religion is counter-espionage. American Christian missionaries had been caught in the business of inciting unrest.
The Beijing government is doing its damnedest to wipe out the Uyghur culture - not by wiping out the Uyghurs as using the word "genocide" would mean and we know some people do thoughtlessly bandy about, but by enforced assimilation to the approved Chinese way of life. That includes suppressing their faith.
Are you spouting malicious information disseminated by the US State Department? Sinizication is a natural process of Chinese cultural assimilation to bring about a cohesive society in China. Uyghur cultural practices and language are allowed to flourish along with those of other ethnic groups, all of which amount to only 8% of China's population of 1.4 billion. Han Chinese is the main ethic group (92%). Assimilation is necessary for survival in China if Uyghur children want to survive alongside Han children in their social and intellectual development in China's rapidly transforming society. We allow the Sioux, Apache, and other natives to languish in their reservations supported by casinos. Is that a way to destroy them?
I don't know the reason for the policy but I do wonder if it is simple fear of any form of belief not that of authority. Oddly, despite plenty of condemnation from nominally-Christian / secular nations (though the Chinese government just shrugs it off and denies what it is doing) there seems very little criticism from the Muslim theocracies who are usually so ultra-sensitive about any attacks on Islam.
Muslim nations know that there is no malicious treatment of Uyghurs in China. China has mosques everywhere.
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment