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Perhaps EM Could Sponsor This With His "Pay Rise"!

A Russia-USA railway-tunnel under the Bering Strait, that is.

Yes, this old chestnut, either tunnel or bridges, first proposed back in the early 1900s, resurfaces now and then. Bridges, plural, because they would presumably use two mid-Strait islands.

I was alerted to this by a brief item in the latest edition of geology magazine Down To Earth, which had been tipped off by a reader sending a Press cutting.


Why my headline? After one of Presidents Putin's & Trump's telephone chats, Karil Dmitri, the head of Russia's sovereign wealth fund, suggested reviving the plan to Elon Musk. I can't see he could done so without Mr. Putin's approval or even instruction.


Twenty minutes' browsing revealed history and analysis, but only one website, that of a group called "Interbering", considered the little matter of the geology, and then only by a very simplified section. And as DtE editor Chris Darmon commented but the Interbering diagram omits, the tunnel would cross a continental plate boundary....

While building some thousands of miles of connecting railways and roads in both nations, across very remote, frigid, seismically-active regions topped by permafrost that climate-change could thaw, may cost even more than Dmitri's projected $8 Bn apparently only for the tunnel itself.

The railway would be electrically-powered of course; adding to the building and maintenance expense including Amtrak having to electrify its main lines, or at least those serving the tunnel.


The proponents also ignore another little matter in their enthusiasm for a complete USA - Russia -China - Europe railway line. Track gauge!

The USA's, Canada's and most of Europe's railways are to Standard Gauge: 4' 8½" (1435mm).

Finland, Russia and China use the Russian, 5' gauge (rounded to 1520mm).

It is that gauge commonality, as well as relatively simple, stable geology and ease of physical access - oh, and fairly simple, stable international politics - that allowed the Channel Tunnel (railway) to succeed. That is only about 25 miles long, as well, whereas the Bering Strait crossing, in a very remote, seismically active, Arctic area, would be around 75-80 miles long.

I think the loading gauges (rolling-stock maximum height and width) differ too.


Well, it would excite The Three Narcissists no doubt, but be practical technically? Not really. Financially? One analysis I read predicts a huge loss because the US / Russian trade was already small even before the present war, and it would be unlikely to compete with general international shipping sufficiently to recoup the enormous building costs likely to increase as time goes on. I think the main trade would be USA / China.


I did not find Mr. Trump's views on it - perhaps he'd call it "great" and "big" and "beautiful".

Perchance to dream....

.....

Some years ago, then-PM Boris Johnson suggested, or was taken by someone else's suggestion, a bridge from Northern Ireland to Scotland, across the narrowest part of the Irish Sea. This is the same Johnson who suggested a huge artificial island in the Thames Estuary, for an airport.

Don't politicians ever learn basic science including physical geography, let alone even lay-level engineering?
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
@ninalanyon I agree but have no idea how Mr. Dmitri came up with that figure.

The other web-sites I saw do show much greater costs, partly because the whole project would require far more than just the tunnel itself.

It is though noticeable that none of the proposals saw any geological problems, only the financial and political ones.

The nearest to addressing them is in Interbering's very simplified geological section, with exaggerated vertical scale making interpretation difficult. The same publicity also suggests the removed rock, being basalt (?), could be used as ballast for the railways on the land each side. Their own diagram shows much of the rock is sedimentary not igneous, so of little value as railway ballast; and so the amount of potential ballast rock excavated would be enough only for a fairly short portion of considerable distance of new railway in both countries.

It avoids totally the point made in Down to Earth that the tunnel would pass through the boundary between two continental crustal plates. Not the safest place to dig through!

HippyJoe has spotted the earthquake hazard, too - this is nearly on his home patch.

(The Channel Tunnel is almost entirely in a deep bed of a soft but stiff, clay-like material called the Chalk Marl, lying along with the other rocks below it, on the very stable NW European Continental Plate that extends well beyond NW Scotland. It was easy to cut, sufficiently self-supporting over short lengths to facilitate lining the tunnel, and dry. )

...

Another of these dream-sites holds a very nice painting of how the Alaskan portal area might look, with a passenger train about to enter, a goods train doing so and another goods train emerging.

The view is supposedly from a hill only a couple of hundred feet above the line, little higher above the water, with the islands and the far coast indicated by annotated outlines.

Errr... The Bering Strait is about 70 miles wide, roughly the distance from the Dorset coast to France opposite. Either coast, and possibly the islands, would be over the horizon from the other. Also the portal is too close to the sea. It would have to be a few miles inland - as I think Interbering does explain. (Another site's painting shows the portal practically on the beach!)

It's the sort of picture made to impress politicians and money types who understand nowt but politics and money.... and those only possibly.


It's details like those, and the ignoring of basic, obvious and awkard technical questions, that make such web-sites just unbelievable.

......

Nor do they mention the obvious engineering matter of the break-of-gauge if trains are supposed to run through to any part of the USA much beyond the Alaskan tunnel portal, or to Western Europe except Finland. That raised its head publicly early in Russia's war in Ukraine, over how to export Ukrainian grain partly by train instead of directly by ship.

......

Oh - and who would pay? Well, obviously not Musk himself!

The Kremlin chap says Russia and un-named "international partners". (Most likely China and perhaps India, I suggest. Possibly Hungary, at least if still under Viktor Orban's presidency?)
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
As a Canadian who lives not too far from Alaska I think it would be rather fun to drive Canada Alaska Russia etc all the way to Cardiff Wales. It will never happen in my life time and given the storms and earthquakes in the ring of fire I doubt that any bridge or tunnel would last very long but it is always fun to dream big.
James57 · 61-69, M
The idea of a crossing to Ireland is just a nonsense idea that comes up from time to time.
There won't be a tunnel from the narrowest point on the Rhins. We can see Ireland from our house, but there is a deep trench in the middle of the North Channel that was used for dumping unrecorded amounts of munitions and possibly nuclear waste.
I have not seen it mentioned but the wind here would put severe limitations on any bridge.
A link from Kintyre isn't feasible because of the long overland distance to get to get there. We were on Kintyre a month ago but we took two ferries to get there by crossing over Arran,
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@James57 Thankyou for that extra information.

Looking at the Kintyre alternative, by road atlas....

The extra road distance might not be a serious problem because the whole idea is a quicker, simple alternative to the ferries, if accompanied by simply up-rating the existing roads, despite being a loing way round.

I recall a destination board in Dumbarton, reading "Campbeltown 100" - the driver of our car pointed it out and said "Campbeltown is just beyond those hills!" we could see ahead.

If they were to bridge the Irish Sea I'm sure they could also bridge the Forth of Clyde and Sound of Bute. Or perhaps the Clyde from Gourock to Dunoon, then Loch Fyne at Tarbert.

Otherwise, yes, the problems you describe would make either a bridge or tunnel not feasible. A tunnel would need descend a long way to pass safely under the trench (some 200 feet deep?), greatly increasing its own length.

I don't know how much a problem the dumped ammunition would be, as a lot may have corroded away by now, but anyway the trench itself would be a serious engineering obstacle. If it lies along a fault, tunnelling below it may be extremely difficult due to sea-water penetrating the fault-plane.

Besides, the whole scheme would be so costly that it would likely never recoup that even with tolls that would have to be high but compete with the ferries.

...

As you say, a nonsense idea.

I think politicians seeking glory but lacking any sense of engineering or physical geography, just look at road-maps and pictures of the Channel Tunnel and Golden Gate Bridge, and assume their pet schemes are just as easy and feasible.
ninalanyon · 70-79, T
Dmitri's projected $8 Bn apparently only for the tunnel itself.

That's far too low. It cost 4x10^9 GBP to build the Channel Tunnel. Which, according to Wikipedia, was equivalent to 11x10^9 GBP in 2023. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Tunnel

But in 2007 there was an announcement of Russian backing for such a crossing and the amount mentioned then was 65x10^9 USD. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait_crossing

That sounds a little less implausible, but still implausible.

Perhaps it might happen one day when global politics are different, climate is different, international trade and economy are different, technology has produced new ideas, etc. After all it took almost two centuries from the first proposal for a Channel Tunnel in 1802 to the successful completion in 1994.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
Pipe Dreams. Nothing would come of this.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@DeWayfarer I agree!

I think this was about the fourth proposal in more than a hundred years, and it's very hard to know how serious it was. Perhaps they asked Elon Musk because he's the most likely to think it a Jolly Good Idea.

One Chinese proposal suggested a tunnel at least twice as long to shorten the line from their country!

 
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