@trollslayer says [quote] i’m guessing somebody will invent some kind if “battery warmer” [/quote] You mean like the engine block warmers that are common in cold climates to make up for the shortcomings of engine oil in extreme cold? Yeah, I think people could easily make the shift from an engine block heater to a battery heater.
[quote]Any particular reason why an electric snow plow won’t work?[/quote] In many ways, electric power is better suited to plowing than gas power.
First, electric engines deliver maximum torque at minimum RPMs (this is the opposite of a gas engine). High torque at low RPMs is exactly what you want to push snow in a controlled manner.
Second, no wear and tear on the transmission. Lots of urban & suburban plow work involves repeated backing up and short pushes. Electric drives have no torque converters, clutches, gear shifts, or similar mechanical components; they just electronically vary the current to the electric motor.
Third, more weight is helpful plowing. An F150 lightning weighs about 1500 lbs more than the gasoline version. You'll see many plow trucks carry sandbags in their beds for extra traction.
@ElwoodBlues i was thinking similar. Just trying to start a discussion on “why” before dismissing the idea as stupid. Where I live, they are starting to test electric fire trucks. I said “test” because it is unwise to jump right in with new technology for emergency vehicles. There are many advantages, as you pointed out, and any disadvantages can be overcome, such as keeping the truck inside to keep the batteries warm.
@trollslayer [quote]starting to test electric fire trucks. ... such as keeping the truck inside[/quote] Everywhere I have lived fire engines have always been kept inside in the fire station so this part of the problem is already solved.
I think Maine is considering having all NEW, [b]LIGHT[/b] state vehicles be electric by 2030.
But it hasn't yet shown up in Maine's climate action plan [b]https://www.maine.gov/future/sites/maine.gov.future/files/inline-files/MaineWontWait_EXSum.pdf[/b]
I work as a Marine Propulsion Design Engineer in Sweden and electric vehicles all have one thing in common... they use compressed energy which is then stored in a container.
Compressed energy is merely energy which is stored within a vessel, which is energy that has already been generated by an outside source and is ready to use.
The energy that comes from a lithium battery is NOT energy that is generated by the lithium itself, but in fact is energy that is generated by something else like a diesel generator. The lithium itself is nothing more than a storage medium for energy that was generated to be stored in until needed for future use.
For example a rubber elastic band is an energy storage vessel. An elastic band does not generate it's own energy. When the elastic is stretched out, the elastic now contains stored energy. What generated the elastic's stored energy in the first place was a human who used her own energy to stretch the elastic band to it's structural limit.
In other words, the elastic did not stretch ITSELF but instead required another energy source to stretch it. That energy that was expended to stretch the elastic band is now being stored within the rubberized elastic fibers.
A lithium battery is the same thing as an elastic band in principle... it stores energy that was generated from some other unrelated source of which is then transferred into the lithium-based vessel for storage until needed sometime in the future.
The problem with lithium batteries in a car or truck is that you cannot boost the amount of energy that a battery holds, as if making the sides of the vessel expand outward to carry more energy.
What this means is, a lithium battery has a very 'finite' energy expenditure which is very predictable AND which is highly dependent on temperature to give back what was put into the lithium storage vessel in the first place.
The hotter the temperature (to a point), the more seemingly expanded energy seems to flow from a lithium battery, compared to what was first generated into it. If it gets too hot however, the battery will fail and will cease to operate.
The colder the temperature (to a point), the LESS seemingly expanded energy will flow from the battery, compared to what was first generated into it. If it gets too cold however, the battery will fail to expend stored energy. What this means is, lithium batteries are like flashlight batteries in the extreme cold... meaning they simply don't work at all, never mind work just a little bit!
It also means that in extreme hot, the batteries become quickly overheated which results in very little energy output. This can be experienced in Arizona for example.
Lithium batteries for cars and trucks were designed to operate at a temperature of 59 degrees Fahrenheit or 15 degrees Celsius. That is the reference point from which all calculations and predictions are made from.
When you operate 'plus or minus' outside that temperature range, your battery will not yield back to you what you generated into that battery in the first place.
That is why electric snow plows will not work in Maine or anywhere else for that matter and the colder the temps, the less they will work.
That is why a nuclear powered submarine works so well... because nuclear power is not pre-generated energy like a lithium battery is, but instead is stored fuel.
@SandWitch But here in Norway it seems that EVs work remarkably well in the cold. And the vegvesen is testing an electric snowplough
[quote]Dette trodde nok enkelte skeptikere at vi ikke ville få se før Dovre faller. Men Vegvesenet er allerede i gang – på nettopp Dovrefjell. ... «Elektrisk brøyting er fullt mulig – også på tøffe fjelloverganger. Det viser erfaringen fra de første testene av elektrisk brøyting», konstaterer Statens vegvesen i en pressemelding.
Vegvesenet er nå i gang med testing av elektriske brøytebiler på E6 over Dovrefjell. Og etter en uke som inkluderer kraftige snøfall, er konklusjonen at det finnes gode teknologiske løsninger for grønn drift av vinterveiene. ... Etter en full driftsdag på nesten ni timer med en blanding av lett og tyngre snø, vindkast og fem minusgrader, gikk batterikapasiteten fra 90 til 28 prosent, noe som gir et snittforbruk på 182 KWt per100 km.[/quote]
[quote]Some sceptics probably thought that we would not see this before Dovre falls. But the Road Administration is already at work - precisely at Dovrefjell. ... "Electric ploughing is completely possible - even on tough mountain passes. This is shown by the experience from the first tests of electric ploughing," states the Norwegian Public Roads Administration in a press release.
The Road Administration is now testing electric plough trucks on the E6 above Dovrefjell. And after a week that included heavy snowfall, the conclusion is that there are good technological solutions for green operation of the winter roads. .... After a full operating day of almost nine hours with a mixture of light and heavier snow, gusts of wind and five minus degrees, the battery capacity went from 90 to 28 percent, which gives an average consumption of 182 KWt per 100 km. [/quote]
[quote] Viking redningstjeneste hadde hendene fulle døgnet rundt og bisto i overkant av 38.000 bilister i januar.
Det var en økning på 30 prosent fra samme periode i fjor, som også var å regne som en uvanlig travel måned.
Enkelte vil ha det til at elbil ikke duger som vinterbil, men det stemmer ikke helt overens med Vikings erfaringer fra kuldemåneden. Mindre starttrøbbel
Av de 38.000 oppdragene i januar gjaldt 8.795 elbiler.
Det utgjør 23 prosent av totalen, men i tillegg utgjorde elbiler kun 14 prosent av bilene som hadde startproblemer i denne perioden.
Her er majoriteten fossil- og hybridbiler, ifølge Viking.
I januar i år hadde 16.410 bilister behov for starthjelp fra Viking i Norge. Av disse var 2.273 elbiler.
– Etter tidenes mest travle januar, ønsket vi å se om det er noen markant forskjell i hvordan elbiler presterer i kulden i forhold til fossilbiler. Da først og fremst med tanke på det som står for mesteparten av problemene nå i den kalde tiden – opp mot 45 prosent av alle henvendelsene – nemlig starthjelp og flate 12-voltsbatterier, sier Svein Setrom, ansvarlig for stasjonsnettet til Viking.
– Vi kom frem til at elbilen klarer seg betydelig bedre enn den gjennomsnittlige fossilbilen i kulde med tanke på startproblemer. Det er et overraskende funn sett ut fra det inntrykk som blir gitt på generell basis. [/quote]
[quote]Viking rescue service had its hands full around the clock and assisted more than 38,000 motorists in January.
There was an increase of 30 per cent from the same period last year, which was also to be considered an unusually busy month.
Some people think that electric cars are not suitable as winter cars, but that does not quite agree with Viking's experiences from the cold months. Less starting trouble
Of the 38,000 assignments in January, 8,795 concerned electric cars.
This makes up 23 per cent of the total, but in addition, electric cars made up only 14 per cent of the cars that had starting problems in this period.
Here, the majority are fossil and hybrid cars, according to Viking.
In January this year, 16,410 motorists needed start-up assistance from Viking in Norway. Of these, 2,273 were electric cars.
- After the busiest January of all time, we wanted to see if there is any marked difference in how electric cars perform in the cold compared to fossil cars. First and foremost with regard to what accounts for most of the problems now in the cold weather - up to 45 per cent of all inquiries - namely starting assistance and flat 12-volt batteries, says Svein Setrom, responsible for Viking's station network.
- We concluded that the electric car performs significantly better than the average fossil car in the cold in terms of starting problems. It is a surprising finding from the point of view of the impression that is given on a general basis.[/quote]
No one says you are. I’m sure you studied what works best for you and made a good choice. Your good choice may not be a good choice for everyone or everything. @IronHamster
https://elbil.no/elektrisk-broytebil-baner-vei-pa-dovrefjell/
