Whataboutism: Are there times when you can use it?
Whataboutism denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation.
If you criticize an Israeli about his government's treatment of Palestinian civilians in Gaza and he replies, "What about Myanmar or the Uyghurs in China" he might be silenced with the accusation "[i]Whataboutism![/i]" In fact, whataboutism is a perfectly acceptable response to counter a double standard or scapegoating. An essential feature of anti-Semitism (or any scapegoating strategy, such as racism) is the double standard. Blacks are often held to a higher standard than whites. Often, the only way to point out a double standard is a "whatabout." What does that tell you about the whataboutism fanatics--those who keep crying out[i] Whataboutism![/i]? Is the accusation of whataboutism a favorite of people who like to scapegoat others? One wonders.
Here's a permissible what about:
A pro-Israel Facebooker posted this in reference to the double standard that Israel is held to. Atrocities, unfortunately, occur throughout the world. Yet, the critical finger seems to point with special insistence to Israel's war crimes, as if that (majority-Jewish) country were a repository of evil in the world.
The issue here is the double standard and its cousin, scapegoating.
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So first of all, whataboutism isn't calling out hypocrisy. Whataboutism is defending something by bringing up something else. If someone were to defend Israel by saying, [i]well what about China?[/i] That would be whataboutism.
Now as for this point: [i]"A pro-Israel Facebooker posted this in reference to the double standard that Israel is held to. Atrocities, unfortunately, occur throughout the world. Yet, the critical finger seems to point with special insistence to Israel's war crimes, as if that (majority-Jewish) country were a repository of evil in the world."[/i] The difference is that America is funding Israel's many war crimes. Yes, China and Saudi Arabia are also authoritarian countries that don't have human rights, yet we still do business with them. However, we're not funding China or Saudi Arabia. When people protest against Israel, it's usually about how their own government is aiding Israel in their genocide.
@BohemianBoo [quote]So first of all, whataboutism isn't calling out hypocrisy. Whataboutism is defending something by bringing up something else. If someone were to defend Israel by saying, well what about China? That would be whataboutism.[/quote]
I'm confused. [quote]If someone were to defend Israel by saying, well what about China? That would be whataboutism.[/quote] But that person [i][u][b]would be [/b][/u][/i]calling out hypocricy and you just said whataboutism isn't calling out hypocrisy. I don't get it.
@BohemianBoo[quote] Whataboutism: You claim Israel is committing a genocide, but what about China? [/quote] And the reason I am pointing out the double standard is to raise a possible issue of anti-Semitism, double standards being a red flag for anti-Semitism.
@BohemianBoo [quote]When people protest against Israel, it's usually about how their own government is aiding Israel in their genocide.[/quote]
Problem. There are protests around the world that have nothing to do with [b][i][u]how their own government is aiding Israel.[/u][/i][/b] Why are people protesting Israel and not other countries doing the same things Israel is accused of doing? Raises a possible issue of anti-Semitism.
@flipper1966 [quote] Why are people protesting Israel and not other countries doing the same thing?[/quote]
Because other countries that commit genocides are usually sanctioned. Israel is the only country that the West supports, despite being an authoritarian apartheid state committing a genocide.
People in the UK don't like that their government is supporting Israel. They want the UK to treat Israel the same way it treats countries like Russia, China, North Korea, and so on.
@BohemianBoo Time for another [b][i]What about[/i][/b]? Gaza gets billions of dollars in foreign aid. Hamas is an authoritarian-ruled entity that also committed genocide of Israelis. [b][i] What about[/i][/b] that? Do you agree that Hamas-run Gaza should be sanctioned because it is authoritarian and murderous?
[i]Foreign aid to Hamas-run Gaza.[/i]
[i]Hamas' committing genocide of Israelis.[/i]
[i]And, by the way, when was the last time Hamas held elections in Gaza? When was the last time the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank held elections? Are these two entities not also authoritarian? [b]What about that?[/b][/i]
@flipper1966 [quote]Hamas is an authoritarian-ruled entity that also committed genocide of Israelis. What about that? Do you agree that Hamas-run Gaza should be sanctioned because it is authoritarian and murderous?[/quote]
Hamas isn't a government, it's a military order that rules over Gaza within the nation of Israel. We can't sanction Hamas any more than we can sanction the Bloods or the Crips. Also, the only reason Hamas exists is because of Israel. The best thing we could do to destroy Hamas would be to stop funding Israel.
@BohemianBoo First off I referred to "Hamas-run Gaza" not the government of Hamas. I misspoke at one point: I should have written, "Gaza is an authoritarian entity,"
Also, friendly word of advice: Try to avoid significant misstatements of facts. They weaken your argument.
[quote]We can't sanction Hamas any more than we can sanction the Bloods or the Crips.[/quote]
@flipper1966 [quote]Try to avoid significant misstatements of facts. They weaken your argument.[/quote]
Which fact did I get wrong?
[quote]That's false.[/quote]
No, what you posted is false. Israel completely controls Gaza. They only pretend that Gaza is a different country so that they can pretend they're at war with a foreign government.
@flipper1966 Yes, but the population is still completely controlled by Israel. South Korea and North Korea don't recognize each other as separate countries, but in reality, they are.
@flipper1966 Now see, that's whataboutism. In order to defend Israel, you're saying that Egypt is bad too. Alright, fine, fuck Egypt. Israel is still committing war crimes daily.
@flipper1966 It's not double standards because we're not funding Egypt, plus Egypt isn't committing the genocide. Of course Egypt should take in Palestinian refugees, it's bad that they don't, but they're not the ones exterminating Palestinians.
@BohemianBoo You say [b][i][i][u]we're not funding Egypt[/u][/i][/i][/b] That only applies to Americans. As to people in other countries criticizing Israel's blockade but ignoring Egypt's blockade, it's a double standard, isn't it?
@flipper1966 No, because Gaza is part of Israel. Israel controls the movement of Gazans, as well as what resources are allowed in Gaza. Whereas Egypt is just not accepting migrants from Gaza. Both countries are in the wrong, but what Israel is doing is infinitely worse.
@flipper1966 Again, Gaza is part of Israel, not Egypt. Egypt keeps people from taking goods from Egypt into Gaza, whereas Israel will intercept goods being sent to Gaza from overseas. Also, as that entry implies, Egypt generally just blocks weapons from getting into Gaza. They don't block aide, like Israel does.
