Should professional politicians be barred from running for public office?
Why not have people with real life experience and actual jobs that have knowledge of being a member of the public making decisions?
61-69, M
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ElwoodBlues · M
We've had two businessmen as presidents. Under George W. Bush, in Dec 2007, we entered the deepest recession since the great depression. And even before that recession Bush was running the highest yearly deficits ever.
Then there's Trump, who botched our pandemic response and lied about the seriousness of Covid because he was trying to prop up stock prices. We lost about 22 MILLION jobs under Trump and ran a one-year deficit of $3.1 TRILLION.
So under what president was the economy best? Bill Clinton. Hands down.
[u] JOB CREATION[/u]
Reagan 16.5 million
Clinton 18.6 million
Bush 5.8 million
Obama 8.9 million
Trump NEGATIVE 3 million
[u]YEARLY DEFICIT[/u]
Reagan $79 billion to $152 billion
Clinton lowered our deficit from 255 billion to a $126 billion SURPLUS in 2001
Bush raised deficit from 0 to 1412 billion
Obama lowered deficit from 1412 billion to 585 billion
Trump raised from 585 billion up to ~4000 billion
[u] DJIA[/u]
Jan 20 1981, Reagan takes office 946;
Jan 20 1989, Reagan leaves office 2235;
Up 136% or 11.3% growth per year.
Jan 20 1993, Clinton takes office 3242;
Jan 20 2001, Clinton leaves office 10588;
up 227%, or 15.92% growth per year.
Jan 20 2001, Bush takes office 10588;
Jan 20 2009, Bush leaves office 7949;
NEGATIVE 3.5% per year.
Jan 20 2009, Obama takes office 7949;
Jan 20 2017, Obama leaves office 19827;
up almost 150% over 8 years, or 12.1% per year (1.121^8=2.49).
Jan 20 2017, Trump takes office 19827;
Jan 20 2021, Trump leaves office 30,930;
up 56% over 4 years, or 11.76% growth per year.
BTW : "From 1952 through June 2020, annualized real stock market returns under Democrats have been 10.6% compared with 4.8% for Republicans." https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/07/23/historical-stock-market-returns-under-every-us-president/#51469926faaf
I'm not saying the stock market is the only way to judge a president, but to the extent it is valid, the market does more than TWICE as well under democratic presidents.
Then there's Trump, who botched our pandemic response and lied about the seriousness of Covid because he was trying to prop up stock prices. We lost about 22 MILLION jobs under Trump and ran a one-year deficit of $3.1 TRILLION.
So under what president was the economy best? Bill Clinton. Hands down.
[u] JOB CREATION[/u]
Reagan 16.5 million
Clinton 18.6 million
Bush 5.8 million
Obama 8.9 million
Trump NEGATIVE 3 million
[u]YEARLY DEFICIT[/u]
Reagan $79 billion to $152 billion
Clinton lowered our deficit from 255 billion to a $126 billion SURPLUS in 2001
Bush raised deficit from 0 to 1412 billion
Obama lowered deficit from 1412 billion to 585 billion
Trump raised from 585 billion up to ~4000 billion
[u] DJIA[/u]
Jan 20 1981, Reagan takes office 946;
Jan 20 1989, Reagan leaves office 2235;
Up 136% or 11.3% growth per year.
Jan 20 1993, Clinton takes office 3242;
Jan 20 2001, Clinton leaves office 10588;
up 227%, or 15.92% growth per year.
Jan 20 2001, Bush takes office 10588;
Jan 20 2009, Bush leaves office 7949;
NEGATIVE 3.5% per year.
Jan 20 2009, Obama takes office 7949;
Jan 20 2017, Obama leaves office 19827;
up almost 150% over 8 years, or 12.1% per year (1.121^8=2.49).
Jan 20 2017, Trump takes office 19827;
Jan 20 2021, Trump leaves office 30,930;
up 56% over 4 years, or 11.76% growth per year.
BTW : "From 1952 through June 2020, annualized real stock market returns under Democrats have been 10.6% compared with 4.8% for Republicans." https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/07/23/historical-stock-market-returns-under-every-us-president/#51469926faaf
I'm not saying the stock market is the only way to judge a president, but to the extent it is valid, the market does more than TWICE as well under democratic presidents.
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hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@ElwoodBlues What color is the sky in your world? Seriously son you have to get out more. Your brain farts are clogging your intellect. If you want to blame Bush for not fixing the problem created by Clinton I would fully agree with you. It was Clinton's policy that set up the housing crash. Bush didn't stop it. They are both to blame.
ElwoodBlues · M
@hippyjoe1955 LOL!!! Bush had SEVEN YEARS to fix any problems. Instead he prayed to the great gods of deregulation & tax cuts and spent like a drunken sailor! There was nothing left for a rainy day!!!
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
For sure not now. @ElwoodBlues
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@ElwoodBlues If you think I in anyway supported Bush you are insane. However lets lay blame where it belongs. Clinton came up with the winning idea that everyone was entitled to own their own home. Didn't work out so well for America. Bush made a half hearted attempt but didn't have the support of congress so he didn't really push it. Do try to keep up. You keep getting lapped.
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
That dunce is running on four flat tires. @hippyjoe1955
ElwoodBlues · M
@hippyjoe1955 Sure it worked out well. Until Bush financed two wars with borrowed money, LOL!!!
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@ElwoodBlues You seem to think I somehow supported Bush. Go back and read my previous posts. I have NEVER supported Bush or Clinton or Obama. None of them were worthy of the title and all of them left the US in worse shape than they found it.
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
@ElwoodBlues Government caused the Great Recession of 2008. Thanks Barney Frank and Chris Dodd
ElwoodBlues · M
@HoraceGreenley
Were Did Barney Frank and Chris Dodd advocating voodoo economics? Did Barney Frank and Chris Dodd sign an enormous tax cut without a spending cut? Did Barney Frank and Chris Dodd finance two wars on borrowed money? C'mon dude, you can't EVER identify ANY republican mistake, can you? 100% apologist, that's you, [b]LOL!!![/b]
Were Did Barney Frank and Chris Dodd advocating voodoo economics? Did Barney Frank and Chris Dodd sign an enormous tax cut without a spending cut? Did Barney Frank and Chris Dodd finance two wars on borrowed money? C'mon dude, you can't EVER identify ANY republican mistake, can you? 100% apologist, that's you, [b]LOL!!![/b]
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
Dumbass
ElwoodBlues · M
@HoraceGreenley Poor sap who can't EVER admit ANY republican has EVER made a mistake. Even wrecking our economy by financing two wars on borrowed money is fine by you, [b]LOL!!![/b]
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HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
ElwoodBlues · M
@HoraceGreenley
Bush's TARP bailout was $700 billion. Remind us how big the Fanny/Freddy bailout was? Oh wait, you don't do facts & figures, do you?
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Bush's TARP bailout was $700 billion. Remind us how big the Fanny/Freddy bailout was? Oh wait, you don't do facts & figures, do you?
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
ElwoodBlues · M
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
@ElwoodBlues $700 billion was the original proposed amount. Less that $500 billion paid and almost all of it repaid.
But then again, you enjoyed getting fucking in the ass by Barney Frank
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But then again, you enjoyed getting fucking in the ass by Barney Frank
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
ElwoodBlues · M
@HoraceGreenley So you're saying the taxpayers had to finance over $500 billion for TARP. The question you keep ducking: how much did the taxpayers finance for Fannie/Freddie? You keep ducking that question - why?
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ElwoodBlues · M
@HoraceGreenley You poor dishonest sap!
The Fannie/Freddie bailout was about $188 billion; in other words, TARP was over 2.5X larger.
And you keep on emphasizing how, eventually, most of TARP was paid back. Are you trying to pretend that Fannie/Freddie didn't also repay almost 100% to taxpayers? Didn't you know? Are you ignorant or dishonest?
![]()
Maybe both!!!
The Fannie/Freddie bailout was about $188 billion; in other words, TARP was over 2.5X larger.
And you keep on emphasizing how, eventually, most of TARP was paid back. Are you trying to pretend that Fannie/Freddie didn't also repay almost 100% to taxpayers? Didn't you know? Are you ignorant or dishonest?
Maybe both!!!
ElwoodBlues · M
@fanuc2013 I'd be interested to see your "final analysis" and the numbers it presents. The US Treasury disagrees with you:
https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/deficit/trends/
Regarding @HoraceGreenley's attempts to blame the 2007 Bush recession on Clinton's Fannie Mae Freddie Mac policies; what he doesn't want you to know is the Fannie/Freddie bailouts were FAR smaller than the TARP bailouts, and the Fannie/Freddie bailouts were paid back IN FULL to the taxpayers. These facts demolish horasses argument so he tries to suppress them
[quote]Federal taxpayers have nearly recouped their $188 billion investment in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage finance giants taken over by the government in 2008.
Third-quarter profit rose sharply at both companies, each reported Thursday, letting Freddie Mac finish reimbursing taxpayers for its bailout and bringing Fannie within about $2 billion of repaying what it received.
. . .
Freddie said it will finish reimbursing the government for its $71.3 billion bailout by year's end, including a $30 billion payment it will make by December. In fact, the total of its payments will exceed the amount it received from the Treasury by $9 million. Fannie said it will pay $8.6 billion in December, leaving it about $2 billion short of the $116.1 billion it received from the government. [/quote]
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/11/07/fannie-earnings/3456709/
[quote]So far, Fannie and Freddie have borrowed $187.5 billion from the Treasury, and by the end of March they will have had paid $202.9 billion in dividends.[/quote]
https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-fiscal-fanniefreddie/u-s-estimates-fannie-freddie-to-repay-179-2-bln-to-taxpayers-idUSL2N0M718I20140310
https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/deficit/trends/
Regarding @HoraceGreenley's attempts to blame the 2007 Bush recession on Clinton's Fannie Mae Freddie Mac policies; what he doesn't want you to know is the Fannie/Freddie bailouts were FAR smaller than the TARP bailouts, and the Fannie/Freddie bailouts were paid back IN FULL to the taxpayers. These facts demolish horasses argument so he tries to suppress them
[quote]Federal taxpayers have nearly recouped their $188 billion investment in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage finance giants taken over by the government in 2008.
Third-quarter profit rose sharply at both companies, each reported Thursday, letting Freddie Mac finish reimbursing taxpayers for its bailout and bringing Fannie within about $2 billion of repaying what it received.
. . .
Freddie said it will finish reimbursing the government for its $71.3 billion bailout by year's end, including a $30 billion payment it will make by December. In fact, the total of its payments will exceed the amount it received from the Treasury by $9 million. Fannie said it will pay $8.6 billion in December, leaving it about $2 billion short of the $116.1 billion it received from the government. [/quote]
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/11/07/fannie-earnings/3456709/
[quote]So far, Fannie and Freddie have borrowed $187.5 billion from the Treasury, and by the end of March they will have had paid $202.9 billion in dividends.[/quote]
https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-fiscal-fanniefreddie/u-s-estimates-fannie-freddie-to-repay-179-2-bln-to-taxpayers-idUSL2N0M718I20140310
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
@ElwoodBlues Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had guaranteed over $1 Trillion of mortgages dumbass
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