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What if: Terrorists vs Armed US civilians

With the whole right to bear arms thing [US Constitution etc]...let's say terrorists attacked, right? I always wondered this: Say some civilians are carrying when an attack happens, and they decide to defend the unarmed civilians against IS, whomever...

Do the cops/army turn up and start taking out civilians because they can't tell who's who? Because I always wondered that. And I always thought that made the gun thing possibly a moot point if you get my meaning. 👍

NOTE; I actually love the idea of people doing this to protect other human beings, it's kind of beautiful. I just wonder if all hell wouldn't break loose for whatever reason. I also would like to believe this could be an example of facial recognition used for a GOOD purpose by perhaps pre-empting - and therefore avoiding - shooting domestic, armed protectors from external terrorist types. You have to believe that they have discussed this as a possible scenario in Counter-Terrorism circles, right? [i]Right...?[/i]

[b]EDIT:[/b] Thanks for the downvote, pal! Whoever you are. 👠👠 Some choice footwear for you. My way of saying thanks.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
Mressage from a country that has suffered from terrorists but very, very rarely random mass-shootings for no obvious motive:

Although the security people can pick up clues to the risk an individual poses, and they have stopped many planned attacks; you cannot distinguish a terrorist from anyone else, and you cannot always tell in advance if any individual is going to do anything dreadful. That is particularly so if the attacker is acting alone, as many are. They don't go round identifying themselves to all and sundry!

Killing wildlife for a hobby or food is one thing. That is shooting in controlled conditions in open countryside and at fairly long range, at eaily-identified, unsuspecting so slow-moving animals, that as Asisficair points out, can't shoot back.

Trying to take your hunting rifles or even hand-guns into a crowded city street as an armed vigilante thinking you can head off a terrorist attack in a crowded city street, is quite another. You do not know who the attacker is, nor how and where he will strike, until he has done it; and you do not know whom you might shoot with the rounds that miss him.

It'd hard enough for the Police even if they have been warned an attack is imminent, somewhere on some day soon. Leave it to them, not gung-ho big-game hunters.

It's also better to catch the terrorist alive as then you have more chance of understanding the motives of such people, and more chance of tracing his fellows-in-crime; to improve the chances of reducing the risks of future terrorist attacks.

That and making him face up to what he's done and what sort of person he is.
SW-User
@ArishMell All very well observed and articulated. The crowd safety was one of my initial considerations but again didn't want to bog my OP down with too much. But this was definitely one of the things on my mind; once that crowd panics - and they will - that's possibly it for many of them. Some will get crushed under a stampede of panicked civilians.

Also the point about capturing the attacker/s alive for information and understanding. I also consider this part of a more progressive society where we can perhaps cut off terrorism at the root before it truly begins to take hold of a person's psyche. Naive perhaps but you have to at least give it a go. Maybe one day.

If you at least show your enemy some respect and show them you understand where they are coming from - some of these people are likely victims themselves. It's a horrible thing and doesn't excuse anything [much like governments do inexcusable things imho].

But it also gives the families of victims a chance to confront the person or persons responsible.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@SW-User Thank you! There is a scheme in the UK designed to engage disaffected young men (usually men) at risk of being drawn into extremism and terrorism and talking them out of it. I don't know how successful it has been but if it has persuaded only a few it's something.
SW-User
@ArishMell I have wanted for a while to volunteer for something like that as I have good skills handling irate people and such. I'd rather do that or talk down jumpers than try the Samaritans thing where you might be responding to a wind-up.

might google for that later - let me know if you have a link for a site for that. have a good Friday night. ✌️
Azlotto · M
"There were over 600,000 hunters this season in the state of Wisconsin .... Allow me to restate that number: 600,000!

OWO

Over the last several months, Wisconsin's hunters became the eighth largest army in the world.

(That’s more men under arms than in Iran .. More than France and Germany combined.)

These men, deployed to the woods of a single American state, Wisconsin, to hunt with firearms, And NO ONE WAS KILLED.

That number pales in comparison to the 750,000 who hunted the woods of Pennsylvania and Michigan's 700,000 hunters, ALL OF WHOM HAVE RETURNED HOME SAFELY.

Toss in a quarter million hunters in West Virginia and it literally establishes the fact that the Hunters of those four states alone would comprise the largest army in the world.

And then add in the total number of hunters in the other 46 states. It's millions more.

The point?

America will forever be safe from foreign invasion with that kind of home-grown firepower! Hunting... it's not just a way to fill the freezer.

It's a matter of national security.

OWO

That's why all enemies, foreign and domestic, want to see us disarmed.

Food for thought, when next we consider gun control. Overall it's true, so if we disregard some assumptions that hunters don't possess the same skills as soldiers, the question would still remain... What army of 2 million would want to face 30 million, 40 million, or 50 million armed citizens??? For the sake of our freedom, don't ever allow gun control or confiscation of guns."
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Azlotto · M
@SW-User I will shoot back.

Are you a terrorist?
SW-User
@Azlotto Whoa.
Those numbers are crazy. That's gonna stay lodged in there now!
Pfuzylogic · M
With todays politics there are diverse definitions of terrorists particularly domestic ones. We just had two court cases that varied in political interpretation with the trial in Kenosha and the one in Georgia. Vigilantism must be defined because we can’t agree on that from state to state.
SW-User
@Pfuzylogic See I think that is a perfectly reasonable and sensible compromise. It isn't a blanket ban on ALL weapons - just the types mentioned. That automatically means far less guns on the streets and not as many automatics [some would undoubtedly cite the black market having them as the ultimate reason not to ban them but I feel that is a separate issue/post/debate altogether].

Do you think that would be better or worse than just banning all guns? Again simply spitballing because I've been thinking/wondering about that recently too. If it would do some good and maybe clean up/stop a sizeable percentage of the crime/violence there.
Pfuzylogic · M
@SW-User
It worked for Australia after a mass murder of 30. They drew the political will. Maybe Australia has a black market if you want to explore that hypothetical. We first need police committed to serve and protect.
We in the military can’t back down from a fight. Why is an exception made for police after they screw things up?
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This has already happened actually. There was a case not too long ago where vigilantes went after some criminals and the cops arrested the vigilantes.
In a war that is going to be an even worse shit show cause in war everyone has to think on their feet and 99% can't do that.
SW-User
@canusernamebemyusername Plus - and this id not shitting on everyone in a position of power because it's cool, simply a matter of inevitable fact of life imho - there is the nightmare scenario/instance of some CO type [maybe this is more of a Marines thing?] where they'll be just a little reckless/too gung-ho.

[b]Note:[/b] Going only by Generation Kill here and the events depicted in that [actual embedded reporter] was nearly 20 years ago, so perhaps they are better insulated against cases like that Re: 'Captain America# and 'Encino Man' and any such CO types.
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SW-User
@SW-User Well I'm sure it'd be worth it for the insensitive lolfest autotune dubstep remixes from the millennials.
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SW-User
@Stereoguy I like that closing sentiment - it's a nice thought, the idea they would want to protect others.

But yes the problem with people volunteering, laying their lives on the line to venture out to Syria to help complete strangers [but ethnic brothers and sisters and a spiritual motherland of sorts for some 'pilgrims' if you will] only to return home and be tried as 'Terrorists' by their home countries...that actually fills me with dread and sickens me.

Could be that is what could scare people out of acting/reacting in such a situation too. That's a tough one to guess.
SW-User
@Virgo79 I definitely think if people are out with their own families then yeah all bets are off. I think you guys might on a day like that be pleasantly surprised you not different the supposed left and right are from each other where it matters to you most. It'd be nice to know they wouldn't got shot at by their own once police / military turns up in such a scenario but who can really predict what would happen.

Just trying to get some sense of what people think could or would possibly go down once police / military would arrive on the scene to such a response from armed civilians in said situation if response was delayed perhaps as a tactical thing by terrorists for maximum devastation/effectiveness. Because I really think they need to stay on top of that stuff everywhere, not just in the US. But obviously this is a USA-centric hypothetical question.
Virgo79 · 61-69, M
@SW-User its something well never know until it happens.
I do think the people will work better with the military than the police it said event ever takes place.

 
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