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This Independence Day, Israel Has Split Into Two Incompatible Jewish States

Haaretz
Alon Pinkas
May 13, 2024 3:45 pm IDT


The confluence of the catastrophe of October 7 and Israel's 76th anniversary may blunt the political debate for a while, but it cannot hide the reality: There are now two states here – Israel and Judea – with contrasting visions of what the nation should be

There is an elephant in the Israeli room – and no, it's not occupation, though that is its main cause.

The elephant in the room is Israel gradually but inexorably being divided into the State of Israel – a high-tech, secular, outward-looking, imperfect but liberal state – and the Kingdom of Judea, a Jewish-supremacist, ultranationalist theocracy with messianic, antidemocratic tendencies that encourage isolation.

This is what happened between (roughly) 796 B.C.E. and the destruction of the First Temple by the Babylonians in 586 B.C.E., and again from 140 B.C.E. to 63 B.C.E. when the Hasmoneans ruled until the Roman conquest. The divisions were most acute during the First Jewish Revolt of 66 C.E., leading to the destruction of the Second Temple in 70, resulting in exile and statelessness until 1948.

It is no longer "Tel Aviv versus Jerusalem" but increasingly "Tel Aviv versus Masada." The modern day versus the extremist, messianic Sicarii cult in Masada in 73. In recent years, Israel has been ruled by a modern-day version of those Jewish Zealots.

Zionism, the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, designed as a political tool to redress a 2,000-year anomaly of statelessness, has in Judea and inside the current government morphed and mutated through the settler movement and extreme right-wing zealots into a Masada-like political culture, based on the concept of the redemption of the ancient kingdom in the ancestral land.

For years, there was a division between Israel and the occupied territories. Now, those occupied territories have taken over the government in Jerusalem under the tutelage and active encouragement of Judea's self-ordained king: Benjamin Netanyahu.

Never in the proud 76 years of Israel's sovereign existence has there been a sadder, more somber, depressing and acrimonious Independence Day than this year. On a day that usually highlights and extols Israel's major achievements, the country will instead be solemnly introspective, despondent, angry and devastated by the catastrophe of October 7, 2023.

But above and beyond pondering October 7, there is a growing realization that "unity," "one destiny" and "we have no choice and no other country" have become meaningless and hollow clichés. Instead, more and more Israelis on both sides of the divide see their country as essentially split into two distinct entities: Judea and Israel.

Unreconcilable value systems

In 1814, the Russian writer and fabulist Ivan Andreyevich Krylov wrote a one-page essay, "The Inquisitive Man." In it, he describes a man who tells his friend that he just spent hours in the Museum of Natural History and recounts in awe all the species he has just seen up close. Surely, the friend says, you saw and were amazed by the elephant and its mountain-like size? Actually, admits the man, I didn't notice the elephant.

And so, Krylov's fable became a common proverb describing people ignoring, avoiding or dismissing an issue that is uncomfortable to talk about – something controversial, potentially contentious and inflammatory once discussed.

Typically, the phrase "The elephant in the room" is used to refer to the issue of occupation, or the lack of resolution of the political fate of the occupied territories (the West Bank and, indirectly, the Gaza Strip) that Israel has been occupying, or administering, since 1967. Nineteen years passed between Israel's proclamation of independence on May 14, 1948 and 1967. Fifty-seven years have elapsed since, and only a shrinking number of Israelis actually remember or conceive of the pre-1967 reality.

Israel is not only occupying territory but approximately 5 million Palestinians. In effect, for 57 years Israel has been living in a recurring loop of the seventh day of the Six-Day War. That reality, which in the 1970s was termed "protracted temporariness," has become a permanent feature of Israel's political and geopolitical ecosystem.

But occupation is not the real elephant in the room, despite Israelis' tendency to conveniently avoid talking about it or seriously trying to resolve the anomaly. Instead, that reality affected, even polluted and decayed, Israel – to the point that Israel is de-facto splitting into two incompatible states.

Sure, the legal system, the military, the bureaucracy and the general cultural characteristics and patriotic attributes remain ostensibly intact. But in essence, there is a civil war raging in Israel. It has not reached Gettysburg levels, but the deep and wide schism is becoming glaringly evident.

The two political value systems are just not reconcilable. "We are fighting the Arabs (or Iran) for our existence" remains the only common thread, and it is weakening. That is a negative definition of national identity: a common enemy and threat, but very little of what unites us in terms of the type of society and country we want to be.

There have been many civil wars in history that temporarily or permanently changed the trajectory of those societies and countries.

The English Civil Wars (1642-1651) temporarily deposed of the monarchy. The American Civil War (1861-1865) ended the Confederacy and, eventually, slavery. China's Taiping Rebellion (1850-1864) was the bloodiest civil war in history with an estimated 30 million deaths. The Chinese Civil War (1927-1949) led to a communist takeover of the world's most populous nation. The Russian Civil War (1917-1922) consolidated the Bolshevik Revolution. The Korean Civil War (1950-1953) ended with that country's permanent division into two hostile nations. The Syrian Civil War started in 2011. Sudan has had numerous civil wars since 1956 – and there have been many smaller, internal wars elsewhere.

The simple definition of a civil war is a war fought between two (or more) politically organized groups within the same society or state structure. They naturally vary in context and causes: ideological, the nature of politics, contrasting cultural value systems or economic.

The divide is real

It may seem crazy, impractical and unfeasible to talk of a dissolution into two states or some federative structure, and it probably is. The fact that it is not doable doesn't change the fact that the divide is real, widening and becoming unbridgeable. The political, cultural and economic gaps and rifts are growing, accompanied by toxic vitriol that masquerades as political discourse. Even the most fundamental common narrative, the Declaration of Independence, is now being questioned with some of its basic tenets and guiding principles a source of political contention.

Israel and Judea do not share a common perception or idea of a Jewish state. The Judeans, whom Netanyahu succeeded in meshing into a voting bloc consisting of the right-wing, the far right, the religious ultra-Orthodox and his cult followers, are not a majority, But they are in power. Their current go-to claim is that "Tel Aviv is a bubble," an echo chamber detached from the "real Israel." If they are the "real Israel," then it is no longer the Israel of the Zionist enterprise.

As for the bubble claim, they're right – but New York is a bubble, Paris and London are bubbles. Yet Tel Aviv, New York, Paris and London represent most of their respective countries' GDP and innovation.

The confluence of the catastrophe of October 7 and Israel's 76th anniversary may blunt the political debate for a while, but they cannot hide the reality: There are two states here, with contrasting visions for the future and essence of the nation.

Israel and Israelis have a lot to be proud of. Israel's physical existence and democracy should never be taken for granted. But the gap between Israel's isles of excellence in science, innovation, high-tech, medicine and the arts stands in stark contrast to political ineptness, abject leadership and a lack of a vision.

It can be fixed without mutually excluding its two components, but on the current trajectory it is in the unraveling phase.
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DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
Been saying some this for a long time now. 😞

Must say though it goes even further back than 796 B.C.E.

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/951/early-jericho/
Jericho started as a popular camping ground for the hunter-gathers of the Natufian culture dating to 10000 BCE.

Israel just simply did not exist. Heck even Jewish scholars don't believe the world existed before 4,000 BCE.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Jewish_history

1312 BCE Moses and the Exodus from Egypt

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3915966/jewish/Timeline-of-Jewish-History.htm
year: -3760

year jewish :1

Event in History: Creation of the world; birth of Adam and Eve (Chavah)





year: -1813

year jewish: 1948

Event in history: Abraham (son of Terah) was born






year: -2705

year jewish : 1056

Event in History: Noah (son of Lemech II) was born






year: -1393

year jewish: 2368

Event in History: Moses was born

The "promised land" was already taken for at least 6,000 years.
@DeWayfarer That has nothing to do with the people living there now.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@LeopoldBloom I must emphatically disagree. It has everything to do with it.

There has never been an end ever since. War is ownership over land and resources.

It was that way then, as well as now.
@DeWayfarer Of course there are historical justifications for Jews, Palestinians, and others occupying that land, but ultimately, the only justification is that they are living there now.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@LeopoldBloom I am certain some disagree with that even now in the USA!

Native Americans still want reparations! 🤷🏻‍♂️

Are they wrong? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Are native Africans wrong?
Are orientals wrong?

BTW a still disputed settlement was just reached from the 1940s with settlers in my area!

They are still disputing it. The city had no right to take over the land.

When in truth the land belonged to the native Americans!

Land and resources are very much a factor back 100 years ago, back 1,000 years ago and even 10 millennium ago.

The hate is never forgotten. Just the reasons for the hate are forgotten.
@DeWayfarer I'm not sure just cutting checks to people is the solution, but we do need to deal with how Black and Native American people were treated historically. But that doesn't mean the white people living on what used to be Native American land should have to move.

The situation in Israel is a lot more complicated as both Jews and Arabs include indigenous and immigrants, and both have a valid claim to the land. And many of the Palestinians who were displaced were affected by decisions made by other Arabs. That being said, the goal of many Palestinians isn't to share the land or have their own state, it's to expel or kill the Jews.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@LeopoldBloom as a whole, I believe the simpler reasons explain it just as well.

Why complicate it?

Hate is hate. On all sides.

Simple.

Notice that I don't set blame on anyone.

The fact that there is hate still stands, regardless of who started what, or both.

You want a resolution?

Stop the hate first.

There will be no resolution until then. There hasn't been a resolution for thousands of years in the case of the middle east.
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@Northwest The problem is that the counterpart to the outward-looking, tolerant aspect of Israel is an insignificant minority in Palestine. The extremist Islamic theocrats are completely in charge.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@LeopoldBloom and always will be.

Iran isn't the only country that is pushing some of this. It's not just Palestine. Nor is just Palestine and Iran.

Please don't say there are treaties either. They are just illusions of peace that could be broken at the slightest offense.

Where do you believe the tunnels in Palestine are going? 🤷🏻‍♂️

There are other factions involved other than the ruling parties. Like Hezbollah in Lebanon to name just one.

Even if Israel won all of Palestine. It's still not over with.

This is why we should have never supported Israel in 1948! Immediately afterwards there was war with Egypt.

Guess where some of the tunnels go! 🤷🏻‍♂️

There are depths to those tunnels not even the Palestinians know about.

The water table underground is non existent. Hence no water now.

All of Palestine is "considered" sea water Aquifer. In other words sea water would back into it if given a big enough hole under 105 feet underground. Higher up nearer the coast by a third.

Guess where the Israelis are concerned with now! The deepest water table in all of Palestine. Rafah!
Northwest · M
@LeopoldBloom You should try to understand what “Palestine” is.

Today, it is 5 million people, all under Israeli occupation. Over the past 3 decades, that occupation morphed into concentration camp conditions, for 3 million out of the 5.

So, Tel Aviv café musings aside, it makes very little difference to them.

But I guess the “problem” is in the perspective, and your perspective seems be blindsided.
@Northwest Comparing Gaza and the West Bank to a "concentration camp" is false equivalence. Inmates of Auschwitz were not permitted to emigrate to other countries that would accept them.

Also, it's not "occupation" if you're talking about Israeli Arab citizens who have representation in the Knesset. Prior to Oct. 7, Gaza wasn't "occupied" by Israel, either, it was under a blockade.

"Palestine" is not "from the river to the sea" with Jewish interlopers occupying a portion of it. Very few people on either side want a combined Jewish-Palestinian federation where equal rights for all are guaranteed.
Northwest · M
@LeopoldBloom First, a reminder of what I said, because you seem to be making it as you go...

You should try to understand what “Palestine” is.

Today, it is 5 million people, all under Israeli occupation. Over the past 3 decades, that occupation morphed into concentration camp conditions, for 3 million out of the 5.

So, Tel Aviv café musings aside, it makes very little difference to them.

But I guess the “problem” is in the perspective, and your perspective seems be blindsided.


Comparing Gaza and the West Bank to a "concentration camp" is false equivalence. Inmates of Auschwitz were not permitted to emigrate to other countries that would accept them.

Let's see who's using their Amazon random word mixer. I said that 3 out of the 5 million live under concentration camp conditions. That would be Gaza, but I refer you figuring out what Palestine is. But, more importantly, a concentration camp is NOT a Nazi concentration camp. But you should stop misquoting me.

Also, it's not "occupation" if you're talking about Israeli Arab citizens who have representation in the Knesset.

Where did you pick this up from? the latest AIPAC campaign? But, I will refer you again to my ask that you learn what Palestine is.

The Arab citizens of Israel are not part of "Palestine". They are citizens of Israel, and are not part of the 3 Million of so stateless people, who live in Gaza, under concentration camp like conditions, and 2 Million stateless people who live in the West Bank under Israeli occupation. Their land keeps shrining as more Orthodox Jews, who think they were commanded by God himself, to kick all non-Jews from the land between the river and the sea, and replace them.

Another false equivalence of yours.

Prior to Oct. 7, Gaza wasn't "occupied" by Israel, either, it was under a blockade.

Hence my use of Concentration camp conditions. But you pretending it's not under actual occupation, is a joke.

"Palestine" is not "from the river to the sea" with Jewish interlopers occupying a portion of it. Very few people on either side want a combined Jewish-Palestinian federation where equal rights for all are guaranteed.

Has nothing to do with what I said. The majority of sane people want a 2-state solution. Palestinians in the West Bank want to stop loving under occupation, and Gaza is a concentration camp where the civilian population is subjected to one massacre after the next. No one should accept that, much less justify it, just like you're trying to do.
@Northwest It's confusing because some of the people who support Palestinian independence mean a separate state alongside Israel. Others mean an Arab state "from the river to the sea" with the Jews either expelled or living as dhimmis. When you hear "75 years of occupation," that's not referring to the West Bank and Gaza, it's referring to the entire area.

If Gaza was a concentration camp, the blame also rests on Egypt, which has an even more impermeable barrier with it than Israel does (at least above ground). However, I also support the two-state solution. This has several obstacles.

1. Borders. I think this plan would work, but both sides would have to agree to it.

2. Security. Israel cannot administer the Palestinian state, but neither can the Palestinians, unless your goal is to create a staging area for attacks on Israel. It would require outside involvement, like a coalition of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt.

3. Refugees. Israel will never agree to a "right of return" for the descendants of people exiled in 1948. No other group of refugees retains permanent refugee status across generations. The 5 million Palestinian refugees would have to either be integrated into their host countries as every other group of refugees that could not return home has been, or could return to the new Palestinian state.

4. West Bank settlers. Land swaps could bring some settlements into Israel, others would have to be dismantled or accept living under Palestinian authority.

5. Jerusalem. Jews, Muslims, and Christians would need free access to historic and religious sites. Possibly placing it under international control would work.

If you can figure out how to address each of these, congratulations.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@LeopoldBloom let them figure it out. Don't support either side. There simply can not be an answer until they do it themselves.

Personally I don't believe there is an answer. Both are fanatics. You should never put fanatics together. Not now, nor in 1948.

There simply is no way to put a "hypothetical" restraining order on either side.
Northwest · M
@LeopoldBloom Trying to put equal blame on Egypt for the state of misery in Gaza in not something I did, and would not. That would be a distinction without a difference, and it matters very little to Gazans.

It also does not matter who's chanting "from the river to the sea", whether it's Netanyahu (and he did it), or the settlers, or Palestinians, and it matters very little what they mean, and I'm sure you will find an entire range on both sides.

To say that the Palestinians cannot govern themselves, is the pinnacle of colonial thinking: they're too dumb, too savage, too uncivilized, they will take any opportunity they can to slit babies throats and drink their blood....

Similar justifications were given to ostracize Jews by Europeans.

Without a leap of faith, backed by strong guarantors,Israel will be at war for the next 75 years. And then for another 75 years, and one of these days, the extremism that the situation continues to breed, will resort to genocidal methods. Israel's best defense is to remove extremism's fertile ground: injustice.

Today 2 European countries recognized the state of Israel. It would be easy to dismiss it as anti-semitism, just as Netanyahu did, and rewarding terrorism, but the fact is that the International growing consensus to acknowledge the fact that this is 2024, and Palestinians' situation can no longer be swept under the rug, and that the Palestinian human rights situation, did not just occur on Oct 7, 2023. The US is against the European move, because a Palestinian state should not be recognized “through unilateral recognition,” and instead should be “realized through direct negotiations between the parties.”

That's hypocrisy galore, because as a matter of fact, Israel became a state, through unilateral recognition, by the UN and the US was OK with it.

The map you presented is what Arabs and Palestinians accepted, and if it can be agreed to by the Israelis as well, Palestinians can figure out how to deal with descent within their ranks. Egypt has been at peace with Israel for nearly 50 years, despite the fact that the Egyptian public is anti-Israeli.
@Northwest The Palestinans' ability to govern themselves is based on observation. Would you call Hamas good government? They were voted in and are still supported by 70% of Gazans. So granting Palestine full independence with the ability of Iran to arm them and use them as a staging ground for further attacks on Israel wouldn't be a solution to the problem. The Palestinian leadership would have to formally recognize Israel and renounce any claim to land they weren't granted as part of the deal.

Arafat rejected the map as a permanent solution because he didn't get his main condition - the return of several million Palestinian refugees to Israel. I suppose you could blame Israel for not accepting that, but it would be a major demographic change where Israeli Jews would lose self-determination.

The UN's recognition of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza is nothing more than a gesture without the Palestinian leadership's acceptance of that limitation.
Northwest · M
@LeopoldBloom And the beatings will continue, until morale improves...


Calling Hamas elected, is a gross mischaracterization of the situation, given the context, and the 70% of support it enjoys among Gazans, is a number pulled out of someone's ass.

Maybe it's 90% or maybe it's 10%. But the total disconnect from the actual context is stunning. Maybe if they're given one day of actual freedom, and the chance to be similar to the other human beings that subject them to life in a concentration camp, whether they are Israeli or Egyptians, might change their perspective.

The PA is corrupt and one of the best suggestions that came out of the Israeli left, is to release Marwan Barghouti from Israeli jails, and let him run for the Presidency of the PA.
@Northwest You're free to discount polls of Palestinians, but here's one from Arab World Research and Development.

https://similarworlds.com/countries/palestine/4935027-What-Palestinians-think-This-is-from-a-survey-that-was

Just crossing your fingers and hoping an independent Palestine will be peaceful and democratic is unrealistic. It will have to be administered by outsiders, and not Israelis either. A coalition of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan would be ideal if those countries were on board.
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