Why does IDF feel the need to release a new video every time they "discover" a new tunnel?

@Bumbles I don't think a high percentage of people, even on the left, are doubting the tunnels and human shields of Hamas. Israel's [i]perception[/i] seems to be that everyone on the left is doubting Hamas's tactics, so they release video after video, or audio recordings, that feel like propaganda or excuses. And this type of behavior is doing little to change opinions (if anything it is galvanizing opposition) because they are telling us things we have already known, [i]for years[/i], over and over.

What I think the vast majority of people on the left are saying is: "Yes, Hamas is evil. We know. But that is still no excuse to level a whole territory and kill tens of thousands and cause a generation of suffering." They are responding to the high number of casualties from an army that claims itself to be the "most moral army in the world." This smug attitude is rubbing people the wrong way - fast.

@trollslayer Really? I’m seeing the left say of Hamas essentially, “guilty, but with an explanation.” So, back off Israel. That’s what a cease fire is.

Protests against Israel started almost immediately, so it’s not about losing patience. There never was any.

How many casualties are acceptable to you? 5? 100?

What rules of engagement are acceptable to you? Only smart bombs? Three person identification of Hamas targets?

@Bumbles I think the protests, and protesters, represent a small minority of the left. I don't disagree that some are saying it, but I think (as typical) folks are getting caught in confirmation biases, and I think media tends to focus on extremes because that is what gets them the most viewers/readers.

As for protests starting immediately - are they pro-Hamas protests, or pro-Palestinian? To me there is a considerable distance between the two. There have been pro Palestinian activist groups around for decades, protesting Israel's political attitude towards Arab Populations. This war brought those proteses, which have been going on for decades, to the forefront. When this war started, those protests were, by and large, not pro-Hamas from what I saw, but more along the lines of "Hey Israel, Palestinians are people, too. Please stop doing what you have been doing for decades."

As for casualties - it isn't so much the number, but the attitude. Obviously 5 or 100 are to be expected. Even a few thousand. My point is about the attitude - Israel seems to show no regret, apology, or even desire to limit those casualties. Sure, they give lip service: "We dropped leaflets!!! Who else Does that!!" (Nearly every western army does). But when 20% of your casualties are friendly fire and you shot your own hostages, that pretty much proves you are trigger happy. So Israel admits they drop a bomb on a place where they told people was safe. Apology? No. Regret? Doesn't sound like it. Again, it's not the number of casualties, but the attitude about it. They act like "Too bad for them. They let Hamas build tunnels. Blame them." Either Israel truly does not care, or they have the absolute shittiest PR department I have ever seen.

@Bumbles

[quote]There is a lot of doubt as the Left thinks Israel’s goal is the murder of the 2 million Gazas.
[/quote]

There's nothing but doubt. You may try some objectivity. Here's some reading material.

https://similarworlds.com/middle-east/4911827-Israel-Isnt-Committing-a-Genocide-but-It-Has-Genocidaires

@trollslayer You raise an interesting point -- why all the "Free Palestine" protests now? Was Palestine not free on October 6? Yes, there were pro-Palestinian protests, I understand that, but the huge ones only started after October 7 after Jews were massacred, kidnapped, and raped. I am rather cynical. No one admits to being "pro-Hamas" as I said it's more "guilty with an explanation." Oh, and the nonsense about "From the River to the Sea" not meaning a state from "the River to the Sea." Don't let the Palestinian flag next to the slogan fool you! 🙄

And I have no quarrel with someone criticizing Israeli tactics or the high casualties, if that was all. The allegation of genocide is absurd on it's face, purely anti-Israeli, and way too convenient.

@Northwest I'm definitely not a fan of Netanyahu or the Israeli far right..

@Bumbles [quote]I'm definitely not a fan of Netanyahu or the Israeli far right..[/quote]

Nevertheless, they are the party in charge of conducting the war, and that's got consequences. You should probably take a few minutes to read the Haaretz report in its entirety.

BTW, while some protesters, actually mean the destruction of Israel, when they chant "River to the Sea", in fact, this is also the very slogan of the Israeli Orthodox. You mean "I believe God is my real estate agent, and it is our duty to occupy the land between the river and the sea, and kill its inhabitants".

@Bumbles No, Palestine was not free. Israel was actively pushing settlers into the west bank. Palestinians were denied access to the places they lived prior to 1948. Their land was controlled by Israel, yet they were not Israeli citizens with Israeli rights. And obviously more protests would happen after October 7th, because they are using the event as exposure for what they have been arguing for decades. It's like gun control protests. They are always there, but there are definitely more right after another mass shooting, because the shooting draws attention to them.

@Northwest I did read the article, thanks. I also agree Leadership has the responsibility for how the war is conducted. As someone who had supported a two state solution, I would disagree with how the Orthodox used it as well.

@trollslayer I never claimed Palestine was free -- I am cynical about how it is being used now, however. After the slaughter and rape of Jews, I found the timing vile.

@Bumbles agree 100%

@Bumbles Many Jews in Israel are wanting Netanyahu to resign.
Why is that?

@JSul3 I agree. Definitely not a Bibi supporter.