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Many Muslim states were formed after World War 1 in the Middle East that expelled Jews. Some perspective for those interested.

Hamas is trying to reconquer land that Islam initially conquered in 634 from the Christian Byzantines, but then lost in 1920, first to the British and then partially transferred to the newly formed Israel in 1949,

About 700, 000 Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes after the formation of Israel.

Israel took Gaza and the West Bank in 1967 after Egyptian closure of the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping. The closing prompted Israeli reprisals causing full war. Israel had warned the closing of Tiran would be considered an act of war.

Keep in mind though that other states were formed out of the British and French mandates after WW1 that remained Muslim I.e. Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Jordon, and Lebanon.

“In the 20th century, approximately 900,000 Jews migrated, fled, or were expelled from Muslim-majority countries throughout Africa and Asia. Primarily a consequence of the Israeli Declaration of Independence, the mass movement mainly transpired from 1948 to the early 1970s, with one final exodus of Iranian Jews occurring shortly after the Islamic Revolution in 1979–1980. An estimated 650000 (72%) of these Jews resettled in Israel. (Wiki)”

The Arabs could have recognized Israel and then negotiate an independence state of Palestine which would have happened if not for Muslim terrorism, in particular the Second Intifada.

Footnote..Egypt and Jordan no longer make any legal claim to Gaza and the West Bank, respectively.
Northwest · M
You're trying to paint a one-sided view of the situation. While it may be true that Hamas does not want peace or a 2-state solution, the fact is that Netanyahu and roughly 40% of the Jewish population of Israel, mostly the Orthodox (and the newly arrived Orthodox), want to expel Palestinians, creating a state of affairs where Palestinians have lower status, apartheid-like rights, and a settler movement that's undeterred, and absiolutely positively above the law.

Your history seems to be flawed as well.

Turkey was not created out of the British/Turkish mandates of post WWI. The allies failed to defeat Turkey in WWI. What resulted was an internal coup, that turned Turkey into a secular state, following a Saturday-Sunday western weekend, and a western Alphabet, as well as an acknowledgment by the allies that Turkey was not defeated, and was totally independent. The Jewish communities, have always flourished.

Lebanon, while emerging out of the French mandate post WWI, is not a Muslim country. In fact, the head of state in Lebanon, by Constitution is Christian, same for the commander of the armed forces, the director of the intelligence, and the Governor of the central bank. I saw a news article earlier this week, about the passing of the President of the Jewish community in Lebanon, at age 80. He oversaw the reconstruction of the Beirut Synagogue, that was damaged during Lebanon's civil war. Lebanon's Jewish population mostly emigrated to Western Europe, the US and Latin America, as a result of Lebanon's civil war, but not really as a result of any existential threat.

Generally speaking, the Jews of the Arab world, left mostly due to economic reasons. Same for the Jews of the Soviet Union (who only stayed in Israel long enough for their paperwork for the US clears up). One major exception, was the Jews of Iraq, who were deported, as a result of a behind the scenes agreement between Nouri al Saeed, the Iraqi strongman and the Israeli government. The records have been declassified. Saeed got paid handsomely. He was deposed and killed during a 1958 coup.

I don't know what would have happened to Iran's Jews, under the Mullahs, but given the circumstances, they were more fortunate than other Iranians, who could not emigrate to the US, when they could.

All you need to do, is listen to the late Leah Rabin, when she declared that Netanyahu de-factor assassinated her husband, to prevent peace.
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@Northwest I appreciate some of your corrections, in particular about Lebanon, but the fact remains other nations were created out of the old Ottoman Empire following the mandates, but it is only Israel whose legitimacy is questioned.

Turkey, to you point, was formed from a nationalist movement and was recognized. Secular too. Interesting…

I make no attempt to defend Bibi, but the Israeli turn to the right, understandably, is a result of the second Intifada. Hamas, as you know, is also interested in a one state solution.

About your economic theory of Jewish migration, though, hmmm. Here are a couple I found. Not all Jews were forced to leave, true, which is also true of the Arabs who fled after the formation of Israel.

Morocco-
Following World War II, especially after the establishment of Israel, Moroccan Jewish communities, which were the largest among Jewish communities in North Africa at the time, faced significant challenges. Pogroms in Oujda and Jerada, coupled with concerns that Morocco's eventual independence from France might result in the persecution of the country's Jewish population, prompted a substantial wave of emigration.

Syria-
Despite an exodus to Israel or other countries of Jews that occurred throughout the Muslim world, Syrian Jews were not officially expelled. But after Israeli independence in 1948, the situation for Syrian Jews deteriorated once again. The Aleppo Arab riot of 1947 killed dozens of Jews and destroyed hundreds of homes, shops, and shuls. This marked the beginning of mass Jewish emigration from Syria to Israel, despite the Syrian government's willingness to put to death those who attempted to flee. Other repressive measures against Jews included barring them from government service, not allowing them to own telephones or driver's licenses, and forbidding them to buy property. The anti-Semitic attitude of Syria's government was displayed to the world when it provided shelter for Nazi war criminal Alois Brunner, an aide to Adolf Eichmann.
Northwest · M
@Bumbles [quote]but it is only Israel whose legitimacy is questioned.
[/quote]

Israel is a member of the UN. Propaganda aside, what legitimate, credible state/country, is questioning Israel's legitimacy?

[quote] Morocco[/quote]

Israelis and Moroccans enjoy a close relationship. You should google around for prominent Israelis with home and businesses in Morocco. Today, a closer look at Israeli society, tells you that Moroccan Jews are discriminated against by Orthodox "European" Jews, at an embarrassing scale. You quoted the first few lines of the Wikipedia article. I recommend you read through the end, and then click on Oujda and Jerada. The context there, was that the towns, in 1948, were exit points of Jews leaving Morocco to go to Israel, and at the time, the rioters accused those Jews of joining forces with the Israeli forces, fighting against Arabs in Israel/Palestine. Yes, some people were killed, but it's not exactly the context you may be relaying.

The discrimination inside Israel, is pretty bad. One of my business associates, in a tech venture, was experiencing it openly, as he was living with a "European" Jewish woman. This was one of many disappointments, during my stay in Israel.

Syria: The bulk of the Jewish immigration to Palestine, happened through the early 1900s to 1940s. Post 1948, several dozen Jews were killed during riots, but, once more, context, there was no official persecution. For comparison, within the same period, thousands of Syrians also lost their lives in the political turmoil, and millions since.

There may have been an element of "security" concerns, but the likes of the Safras, left for economic reasons, to do things like start global banks.

Assad is genocidal, and he employed some former Nazi-tainted scientists, but he was using them mostly against his people. Check out the Syrian opposition for more info.
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@Northwest Thanks for the referrals.
trollslayer · 46-50, M
I think the real issue is we are we are where we are, and delving into “legitimacy” doesn't solve the problem. Israel exists. Period. Palestinians exist. Period. Now lets figure this out.
WandererTony · 56-60, M
Wiki cannot be quoted as a source of reference. It is open source and anyone can edit.

Having said that, it is foolish to look at history to justify the present actions. Else America has to be vacated and all settlers should go back to Europe. Going back further, manmind should go back to Africa 😀

Solutions have to be based on present situation and for lasting peace. Referring to 634 is too blatently looking for excuses to occupy land.
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@WandererTony The Wiki entry here is pretty basic stuff and is well referenced.

I only offer facts for context and to show that the legitimacy of Israel should not be questioned anymore than the legitimacy of Jordan. And that Jews also have historical claims of return just like the Palestinians.

And that Hamas’ claim is easily counterclaimed as Christians were victims of Islamic conquest.

I can’t ignore history as doing so would warp the present understanding of the conflict.

History is always relevant. To understand racism we must look at the institution of slavery, for example.
WandererTony · 56-60, M
What is termed as racism is race based domination. Need not look at institution of slavery for that in my opinion.

The basis of looking at history to solve the present is the root cause of inability to solve the crisis.

I do not know why such a simple thing is not apparent to so many. Perhaps because it does not serve their interest.
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@WandererTony I think if you mean the need to move past perceived injustices there is a point to be made, but when so many offer a historical narrative that is polemical, here on SW for example, it would be unreasonable to not look into that offered narrative. I leaned things I was surprised about.

 
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