Which side do you support or what's your take on the situation?
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SW-User
I support the right of Palestinians to either have their own state or be recognized as full citizens within a shared Israeli/Palestinian state.
The current situation in Israel is effectively an apartheid and I do not support it.
The reason South Africa's apartheid ended is because the world turned against them. They were effectively on their own. Israel still has major support from the U.S. Things aren't going to change any time soon.
@SW-User Hamas will also have to cooperate and give up its goal of a Jew-free Middle East.
Apartheid doesn't describe the situation, however. The official definition of apartheid is oppression of one racial group by another. Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs are the same race. In fact, 20% of Israel's population is Arab; these are the people whose grandparents remained in the country in 1948, and are full citizens today with representation in the Knesset. Contrast this with the Mizrahi Jewish communities that were expelled from their homes in the Arab world after Israel was established. This is why Israel's Jewish population was as much as 80% Mizrahi at one time.
@LeopoldBloom This is more of your indoctrinated spin, its not "apartheid" because that doesn't fit the strict definition of the word?
It's apartheid in spirit, the Israelis are systematically discriminating against the Palestinians in their held territory in much the same way South Africa used to discriminate against its Black population.
If this was Russia or China doing this, the US and the West would be all over them shaming them for letting this happen.
Because its Israel and they have value to US interests in the Middle East, its overlooked and dismissed.
@SumKindaMunster Is there anywhere else in the world where "apartheid in spirit" is going on? It's suspicious that the word is only applied to the situation in the occupied territories.
Do you think Israel is doing this for no reason at all? Or they just enjoy oppressing people?
@LeopoldBloom I noticed you didn't dispute the notion that the spirit of apartheid is being applied here.
[quote]Is there anywhere else in the world where "apartheid in spirit" is going on? It's suspicious that the word is only applied to the situation in the occupied territories.[/quote]
Why is that suspicious?
[quote]Do you think Israel is doing this for no reason at all? Or they just enjoy oppressing people?[/quote]
Of course they have reasons. I'm sure you've noticed the reduction in terrorist bombings in Israel over the last 20 years haven't you? Between their oppression of the Palestinians living in their captured territories and building a giant wall to protect themselves, they are behaving how people like you say the US behaves to illegals crossing their border.
But let's hear you defend this behavior. I'm interested in your "spin" on this subject.
@SumKindaMunster It's similar to apartheid even if it doesn't meet the official definition. So why call it "apartheid" here when that term isn't applied anywhere else?
Israel is threatened in ways that the US isn't. Terrorists aren't trying to get into Israel to take advantage of its welfare system or to get higher-paying jobs. Also, Israel is smaller and a wall can be effective there, unlike putting one on the Mexican border where the geography and the fact that most illegal immigrants enter the country legally would make it useless.
By the way, I oppose Israel's settlement policy in the West Bank and would support using our military aid as leverage to get them to change it. Most anti-Israel sentiment in the world is based on their treatment of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. So finding a solution to that would definitely help.
@LeopoldBloom [quote]It's similar to apartheid even if it doesn't meet the official definition. So why call it "apartheid" here when that term isn't applied anywhere else?[/quote]
Because arguing about the meaning of the word apartheid is not the point, its to demonstrate that Israel is engaging in systemic oppression and brutalization of a minority population and they are getting away with it while people like you make hay about the official definition of "apartheid".
If it was called "Jim Crow" would that make you understand it better?
[quote]Israel is threatened in ways that the US isn't. Terrorists aren't trying to get into Israel to take advantage of its welfare system or to get higher-paying jobs. Also, Israel is smaller and a wall can be effective there, unlike putting one on the Mexican border where the geography and the fact that most illegal immigrants enter the country legally would make it useless.[/quote]
Wow, that's all I can say. [i]As far as you know[/i], no terrorists are trying to use the southern border to get into America...its not like we are stopping them to find out so I don't think you can know this for certain...I don't agree a wall on the southern border is "useless" at all, and the fact that illegals are streaming over the border in record numbers would seem to demonstrate that...
[quote]By the way, I oppose Israel's settlement policy in the West Bank and would support using our military aid as leverage to get them to change it. Most anti-Israel sentiment in the world is based on their treatment of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. So finding a solution to that would definitely help. [/quote]
Yeah it would. It's not a good look at all for Israel. They are treating the Palestinians in their territories the way the Nazis used to treat them. It's appalling.
@SumKindaMunster You seem to have a habit of equating actual threats with possible ones. A wall on the southern border wouldn't stop the terrorists you imagine are chomping at the bit to sneak into the US. Recall that the 9/11 hijackers entered the country legally. A wall wouldn't have stopped them.
My objection to "apartheid" is that it's a loaded word, and it's [i]only[/i] used to refer to Israel. If it was applied routinely to similar situations, I wouldn't object to it being used here.
You can knock off the drama. Israelis aren't rounding up Palestinians, putting them into death camps, and gassing them. You've gone off the deep end with that one. It's that kind of rhetoric that encourages Israelis to think that if they're going to be unfairly demonized, they're entitled to fight back. You'd be the first to scream "unfair" if I said that white police officers were treating Black people the way the Nazis treated the Jews.
@LeopoldBloom [quote] A wall on the southern border wouldn't stop the terrorists you imagine are chomping at the bit to sneak into the US. Recall that the 9/11 hijackers entered the country legally. A wall wouldn't have stopped them. [/quote]
My point was you assumed there would be no terrorists crossing the southern border and I am saying you have no way of knowing that is true or not since we aren't stopping anyone from coming over.
[quote]My objection to "apartheid" is that it's a loaded word, and it's only used to refer to Israel. If it was applied routinely to similar situations, I wouldn't object to it being used here.[/quote]
Well while it specifically refers to South Africa's policy of racial separation, the word simply means "apart" or separate and its meaning applies to Israel's actions, regardless if the word bothers you.
[quote]You can knock off the drama. Israelis aren't rounding up Palestinians, putting them into death camps, and gassing them[/quote]
True. But how about these forced "re-settlements"? Apparently it is now policy for the Israeli army to go into private homes of Palestinians and literally kick them out onto the street so the home can be used for Israeli citizens...that doesn't sound like something the Nazis did?? Hmm? Sounds like the kinda thing a young George Soros would have been involved in...or did you forgot that conversation like all our other ones? 😂
SW-User
@SumKindaMunster Israel lost my support when a Jewish extremist destroyed the best hope for a lasting peace there ever was with the assassination of Rabin back in 1993.
@SumKindaMunster Where are you getting your information from, Tucker Carlson? Of course we're stopping people from crossing the southern border. The border patrol apprehended over 2 million people at the border in 2022. Half of these were turned back, with the other half processed for hearings or kept in custody. If you're worried about terrorists, most of those entered the country in other ways. Islamic terrorism is almost unheard of these days anyway. You don't want to hear about which group actually commits most of the terrorism in the U.S.
Can you name any other country besides Israel where "apartheid" is applied? I'm aware of what the word means. It also specifically refers to the law in South Africa prior to 1992. Applying it to Israel, and only to Israel, is meant as a slur whether that's your intention or not.
You're obviously an antisemite if you aren't going to back down on calling Israel "Nazi" and bringing up George Soros. Soros was 12 years old when he fled the Nazis. What were you doing when you were 12, beating up other boys you thought were gay probably. Of course, real white supremacists like Harlan Crow, the guy who owns Clarence Thomas, is merely engaging in free speech, right?
If you'd been around in Nazi Germany, you would have supported Hitler because his program of white grievance and blaming a minority group for the country's problems would have appealed to you. You're doing the same thing now.
@LeopoldBloom Bloom, pointing out the bad behavior of the Israel government is not antisemitism. Sharing with you embarrassing information about George Soros as a lad is not antisemitism.
If you can't handle speaking about this without losing your shit then I will move on.
If such things upset you, then maybe you want to think about why, it seems you are taking this very personally.
I saw in another reply to me you said you hoped my daughter got raped.
Clearly you are triggered so I am moving on from the discussion.
SW-User
@SumKindaMunster did he really say that about your daughter?
@SumKindaMunster You're lying again, as usual. The quote you screenshotted doesn't express "hope" that your daughter was raped; I asked a hypothetical question how you would react "if" it happened.
Criticizing the Israeli government isn't antisemitic. Accusing them of being "Nazis" is. So is bringing up "Soros" as the only example of a rich person influencing politics.
[quote]Yeah it would. It's not a good look at all for Israel. They are treating the Palestinians in their territories the way the Nazis used to treat them.[/quote]
Also, nobody but Richard Gere is complaining about what the Chinese are doing in Tibet, even though it qualifies as cultural genocide.
@SumKindaMunster You literally called Israeli Jews "Nazis." You weren't being hyperbolic, I hear that crap from antisemites all the time. Often the same people who would scream bloody murder if Palestinian refugees were settled anywhere near them. And it's not hyperbolic to ask how you would react if Trump had treated someone in your family the way he treated Carroll.
I'm opposed to Israel's policy in the Occupied Territories but I support their right to exist as an independent country. Have you ever wondered why Israel acts the way it does? Or does your understanding of the history in that part of the world only extend back six months?
