@pdockal Yes, women's lives are precious, unfortunately many Christians don't feel that way. Jesus loved women but conveniently that was never practiced by many Christians.
@pdockal Then you don't like women and I was correct. It's absolutely psychopathic to force a woman to have an unwanted baby. Often to risk her life or have the baby of a rapist. I don't respect you either.
I'm just saying i don't know ANYBODY that is for abortions ...
If you really want to debate CHOICES then there are plenty of choices to be made before conception ... after conception there are also choices besides abortion ... my cousin almost was killed but my mother & grandfather stepped in to save the child ... she was kept by her mom and her & the mother have had an amazing life and the mother is glad she didn't go thru with her plans ... and back then single teenage mother wasnt looked upon positively ...
I was raised and believe abortion is murder by mom & grandmother & aunts etc etc etc ...
@pdockal I never said there weren't other choices available before and after conception besides abortion, but that option should remain available for women that need it. Just because you were raised to think abortion is murder doesn't mean it is. And it's nice that your cousin wasn't aborted, but that has nothing to do with other people. Some women regret having children, and most women who have abortions are glad they did.
@pdockal It's not "murder" and pregnancy is far more than an "inconvenience." And words have meanings. Vegans say "meat is murder" but that doesn't mean you will be arrested for eating a steak. Using "murder" to refer to legal abortion is just emotional manipulation. Same as if I called depriving women of abortion "slavery." Why do you support enslaving women for the crime of having sex?
If you were as pro-life as you say you are, you'd support mandatory kidney donations. It's inconvenient to donate a kidney, but you can live with just one and it would save the life of a dialysis patient. Why is your convenience worth more than their life?
@pdockal LOL "orgasm donor?" Yeah, I like to donate orgasms too.
"Murder" is a legal term. If abortion is legal, it's not "murder." You're just using the word for its emotional effect, same as vegans do.
A woman donates her uterus for the ZEF, and someone can donate their kidney to save a dialysis patient. In both cases, the person is using their body to serve someone else, and suffering lifelong effects from it, so it should always be voluntary.
@pdockal I just said it's not murder if it's legal. "Murder" is a legal term, not an emotional one.
You act like giving birth is no more inconvenient than a haircut. Pregnancy and childbirth can be devastating to a woman and can even kill her.
I brought up organ donation because you can live with one kidney and your other kidney can save the life of a dialysis patient. If you're truly "pro-life," you should support mandatory kidney donation. Most people recover from the surgery in around six weeks, so it's really just a minor inconvenience. By refusing to donate a kidney, you're literally murdering people.
@pdockal Actually, words have definitions and we should use them correctly.
Abortion is murder in the states where it's illegal, and not murder in the states where it's legal. So you can't make a blanket statement unless you qualify it with the specific state you're referring to. Although, what's interesting is that most states that outlaw abortion, only punish the doctor. The woman who actually has the abortion faces no penalty. So even in those states, it's not really "murder." I'm not aware of any state where you can hire a hit man to kill someone, and the hit man goes to jail but nothing happens to the person who hired them.
I know I can't change your mind, but I'm not shoving my views down your throat. If you're against abortion, then don't have one. No one in America is being legally forced to have an abortion against their will. It's the pro-lifers who are shoving their views down everyone else's throats, even though they're in the minority. Maybe you didn't notice, but there have been six elections since the Dobbs decision, and in each of them, abortion rights won, even in conservative states like Kansas.
@pdockal Uh, no. Abortion is legal on the federal level. The Dobbs decision merely reversed Roe v. Wade and allowed states to outlaw abortion if they wanted to. Abortion is currently legal in 37 states, and in many of the ones where it's illegal, it's still legal in cases of rape or to save the mother's life.
I don't know you personally, so how am I "shoving my opinion down your throat?" I can't force you to do anything. We're just talking and you're free to ignore me and move on. Disagreeing with you is not the same as passing laws preventing you from doing something.
If abortion is "murdering a life," then so is capital punishment, warfare, and self-defense - are you against those, too?
It's nice that you would adopt family members, but if a woman doesn't want to gestate for 9 months and go through the agony of giving birth, she shouldn't have to just because you personally dislike abortion. If you feel that strongly about it, you should adopt a unwanted child yourself. There are lots of kids in foster care that are older, or disabled, or mixed race, who aren't being adopted. Instead of trying to force women to give birth against their will, maybe you should demonstrate how "pro-life" you are and actually do something to help.
The Hyde Amendment withholds federal Medicaid funding from abortion nationwide, with extremely narrow exceptions. It's an intrusive and unfair restriction on insurance coverage for millions of people with low incomes, and it is an example of politicians interfering with access to safe and legal abortion.
On April 18, 2007, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the first-ever federal law banning abortion procedures and gave politicians the green light to interfere in people's reproductive health care decisions.
Now I'm not gong to read any more on this thread because it's going no where fast
@pdockal I'm confused. I thought you were pro-life. I also agree that the Hyde Amendment is an unwarranted interference in the right of poor women to access abortion services.
The Supreme Court has been controlled by conservatives throughout most of its history. You should read Erwin Chemerinsky's The Case Against the Supreme Court. It has consistently protected the wealthy and powerful from the poor and disenfranchised, literally the opposite of what it was intended to do. Even when the court has done the right thing (like Brown v. Board of Education), it hasn't enforced its own decisions.
I support stripping the Supreme Court back to its constitutional limits of only deciding cases between states or involving ambassadors, and setting up a new, separate appellate court for everything else as Article III allows. Congress just needs to do it.
