It is said that don't know history are bound to repeat it.
In the light of the covid vax here is some historical video from 1976
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bOHYZhL0WQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bOHYZhL0WQ
61-69, M
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HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
Every medicine has risks. You can overdose on asprin if you try hard enough. Vaccines are no different.
Vaccines and therapies have side effects. Their use is determined by a risk/reward analysis. Some number of people will be injured by the use of drugs and vaccines. It is inevitable.
The issue is, is their use, knowing that some number of people will be injured, bring about enough positive health outcomes to outweigh the risks.
When private companies create and test drugs, vaccines, etc., knowing that they can be sued into insolvency, they only sell products with very minimal risks.
However the federal government, not having the risk of lawsuits that private companies have, will issue drugs and vaccines that carry higher risks of side effects than what private companies ordinarily are willing to assume. That's why the companies that created the Covid vaccines were given immunity by the federal government for most kinds of prosecution.
In times of national emergency the normal guidelines for safety are changed. As an example, in normal circumstances, drugs and vaccines can have serious side effects for well below 1% of the population receiving them. In times of national emergency a higher number is accepted. The thinking is better to protect 98% of the population and let 2% have serious side effects than let the disease kill or seriously effect 20% or more of the population.
So the drugs and vaccines are "safe" in that large numbers of people are not seriously affected by them. But when the federal government declares a national emergency drugs and vaccines are a little less safe than they usually are.
The difficulty is that the federal government will not admit this because they don't want people avoid the drug or vaccine. This is because if large portions avoid the drug or vaccine the disease will cause a much larger problem.
Although you can't predict exactly who, a few people will be hurt by the drug or vaccine.
Vaccines and therapies have side effects. Their use is determined by a risk/reward analysis. Some number of people will be injured by the use of drugs and vaccines. It is inevitable.
The issue is, is their use, knowing that some number of people will be injured, bring about enough positive health outcomes to outweigh the risks.
When private companies create and test drugs, vaccines, etc., knowing that they can be sued into insolvency, they only sell products with very minimal risks.
However the federal government, not having the risk of lawsuits that private companies have, will issue drugs and vaccines that carry higher risks of side effects than what private companies ordinarily are willing to assume. That's why the companies that created the Covid vaccines were given immunity by the federal government for most kinds of prosecution.
In times of national emergency the normal guidelines for safety are changed. As an example, in normal circumstances, drugs and vaccines can have serious side effects for well below 1% of the population receiving them. In times of national emergency a higher number is accepted. The thinking is better to protect 98% of the population and let 2% have serious side effects than let the disease kill or seriously effect 20% or more of the population.
So the drugs and vaccines are "safe" in that large numbers of people are not seriously affected by them. But when the federal government declares a national emergency drugs and vaccines are a little less safe than they usually are.
The difficulty is that the federal government will not admit this because they don't want people avoid the drug or vaccine. This is because if large portions avoid the drug or vaccine the disease will cause a much larger problem.
Although you can't predict exactly who, a few people will be hurt by the drug or vaccine.
View 26 more replies »
@HoraceGreenley my quota was filled up by people pushing masks and vaccines. Bend a knee to lord fauci over this scam-demic
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Stargazer89 Has Fauci ever told the truth? It seems he changes his story more often than he changes his underwear. Then there are the emails.....
@hippyjoe1955 you can't trust him. He's making a lot of money off of this fake pandemic.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@TexChik The problem you highlight there is not medical, and there are more than one type of vaccine available.
The problem is that word "politically". Pathogens know nothing about politics and politicians.
Corona virus diseases, including influenza and the common cold, don't seem to very curable by medicine anyway, though their symptoms can be eased to help recovery.
However only your own country can do anything about those of its own politicians who, you say, seek to undermine any attempts to treat any illness, for whatever their reasons.
The problem is that word "politically". Pathogens know nothing about politics and politicians.
Corona virus diseases, including influenza and the common cold, don't seem to very curable by medicine anyway, though their symptoms can be eased to help recovery.
However only your own country can do anything about those of its own politicians who, you say, seek to undermine any attempts to treat any illness, for whatever their reasons.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@ArishMell According to Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
So I read that the Israeli PM says the vaxes are a dud. The Israeli Chief Medical Officer of Heath says the entire vax program is a complete failure/disaster. Hmmm
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@hippyjoe1955 You seem to think the whole pandmic was a deliberate act but some unidentified "they" for no idendifiable reasons!
I can accept the virus may have escaped from a laboratory just as it may have come from very poor animal-handling hygeine. I don't know this any more than you do.
Nor do you or I know if this particular virus was a so-called "gain of function" test species.
The stark truth is that we don't really know the pandemic's [i]origin[/i], only where it was first [i]identified[/i].
Same with the variants working their way down the Greek alphabet (Physics and Maths will never seem the same again!) Though at first given regional names, the places are only of initial identification.
The Chinese Government has not been very co-operative in this, but it's important to understand Chinese society beyond her present politics. Asian societies generally tend to defer to authority; but China's local Prty and Police officers are of a society whose deferral to and fear of authority has been ingrained over many centuries. Her Revolution simply replaced a succession of Emperors with a self-perpetuating committee. It's largely that which led to behaviour that raised so many suspicions, especially during very strained East-West relations.
'
There is another reason the illness' real origins are vague. Its symptoms in mild cases are much like those of other respiratory illnesses. It's entirely possible that the thing was already quite well established from an untraceable source before it was first identified in a definite town after an unusually large number of cases of very bad coughs or even something like pneumonia. This too in busy towns with live-animal markets lacking proper standards of hygeine and animal welfare.
The Chinese then made a huge mistake in trying to suppress the news, by local officials fearful of those above them. Once they did realise what was happening the Government was very quick to publish the virus' genetics around the world so researchers everywhere could start finding if not a cure then certainly a vaccine.
If intended as a biological weapon but it escaped prematurely, the Chinese government would have found their own vaccine, but they would have not published the virus' and vaccine's nature abroad.
''''
Coronavirus diseases are very hard to "cure". They cannot be treated with antibiotics and it comes down to reducing the symptoms and helping the body heal itself. The UK Government's Porton Down biological laboratory spent some decades trying to find a vaccine and cure for one Corona-virus disease, only to find it always stays a step ahead. That disease? The Common Cold.
Luckily, despite your apparent wish for vaccines to fail, the Covid-19 species so far at least can be held at bay by vaccine, but a vaccine works by bolstering the body's defences, not by attacking the virus itself.
'''''
So we cannot prove that the SARS-Covid_19 virus was a laboratory escapee; there is certainly no point in thinking it was deliberately let out; the wretched thing is all around the world.
So it is up to the world to work together to fight it.
- That fight is not helped by certain national leaders having tried to deny the disease is real or at least play it down, for their own political reasons.
- It is not helped by people who refuse to believe it and refuse to obey any advice or rules intended to protect each other.
- It is not helped by that other pernicious virus: ignorance and lies spread on "[anti?]social media".
That last is not just genuinely ignorant private individuals claiming they "heard of someone who said the vaccine made her best friends' cousin's great-aunt, infertile", or "read that the vaccine holds miniature 5G 'phones". Anyone with an ounce of sense would ignore piffle like that.
The real problem, not just affecting the pandemic, is a raft of very deliberate, professionally-produced on-line magazines looking like serious, analytical "news" to mislead so readers into following the line intended. I have been shown a few of these, not just about the pandemic; and whilst they all looked American I think at least one may have have been from Russia.
'''
So [i]who [/i]is politicising it?
Well, first the Chinese government by trying to hush things up for its own reputation.
Later and much more seriously by an unholy mix of "pandemic-deniers": a few national leaders, various conspiracy-fantasists, opponents of public health services and regulations, and murky professional sources of anti-vaccine and other propaganda designed to undermine anything governmental.
The last sources are not necessarily in the target countries. Though nor involving the pandemic, the UK Government has recently banned one neo-Nazi group that appears American, but was found to be run from Russia. The nucleii might not even be formal organisations, just anonymous individuals on-line; though some might be acting on state commission.
'''
[i]Why[/i]? the politicising?
We may well ask.
We'd have to ask those presidents, public-health opponents and propaganda publishers themselves, but they won't or can't say, of course. It almost looks as if they want pandemics to spread, huge numbers of people to die, businesses and public services to be crippled. Only they can say why; but I suspect many would be unable to give any sensible, convincing, logical explanation.
I wonder if these types think the same of vaccines against many other really nasty diseases: TB, polio, tetanus, etc.?
I can accept the virus may have escaped from a laboratory just as it may have come from very poor animal-handling hygeine. I don't know this any more than you do.
Nor do you or I know if this particular virus was a so-called "gain of function" test species.
The stark truth is that we don't really know the pandemic's [i]origin[/i], only where it was first [i]identified[/i].
Same with the variants working their way down the Greek alphabet (Physics and Maths will never seem the same again!) Though at first given regional names, the places are only of initial identification.
The Chinese Government has not been very co-operative in this, but it's important to understand Chinese society beyond her present politics. Asian societies generally tend to defer to authority; but China's local Prty and Police officers are of a society whose deferral to and fear of authority has been ingrained over many centuries. Her Revolution simply replaced a succession of Emperors with a self-perpetuating committee. It's largely that which led to behaviour that raised so many suspicions, especially during very strained East-West relations.
'
There is another reason the illness' real origins are vague. Its symptoms in mild cases are much like those of other respiratory illnesses. It's entirely possible that the thing was already quite well established from an untraceable source before it was first identified in a definite town after an unusually large number of cases of very bad coughs or even something like pneumonia. This too in busy towns with live-animal markets lacking proper standards of hygeine and animal welfare.
The Chinese then made a huge mistake in trying to suppress the news, by local officials fearful of those above them. Once they did realise what was happening the Government was very quick to publish the virus' genetics around the world so researchers everywhere could start finding if not a cure then certainly a vaccine.
If intended as a biological weapon but it escaped prematurely, the Chinese government would have found their own vaccine, but they would have not published the virus' and vaccine's nature abroad.
''''
Coronavirus diseases are very hard to "cure". They cannot be treated with antibiotics and it comes down to reducing the symptoms and helping the body heal itself. The UK Government's Porton Down biological laboratory spent some decades trying to find a vaccine and cure for one Corona-virus disease, only to find it always stays a step ahead. That disease? The Common Cold.
Luckily, despite your apparent wish for vaccines to fail, the Covid-19 species so far at least can be held at bay by vaccine, but a vaccine works by bolstering the body's defences, not by attacking the virus itself.
'''''
So we cannot prove that the SARS-Covid_19 virus was a laboratory escapee; there is certainly no point in thinking it was deliberately let out; the wretched thing is all around the world.
So it is up to the world to work together to fight it.
- That fight is not helped by certain national leaders having tried to deny the disease is real or at least play it down, for their own political reasons.
- It is not helped by people who refuse to believe it and refuse to obey any advice or rules intended to protect each other.
- It is not helped by that other pernicious virus: ignorance and lies spread on "[anti?]social media".
That last is not just genuinely ignorant private individuals claiming they "heard of someone who said the vaccine made her best friends' cousin's great-aunt, infertile", or "read that the vaccine holds miniature 5G 'phones". Anyone with an ounce of sense would ignore piffle like that.
The real problem, not just affecting the pandemic, is a raft of very deliberate, professionally-produced on-line magazines looking like serious, analytical "news" to mislead so readers into following the line intended. I have been shown a few of these, not just about the pandemic; and whilst they all looked American I think at least one may have have been from Russia.
'''
So [i]who [/i]is politicising it?
Well, first the Chinese government by trying to hush things up for its own reputation.
Later and much more seriously by an unholy mix of "pandemic-deniers": a few national leaders, various conspiracy-fantasists, opponents of public health services and regulations, and murky professional sources of anti-vaccine and other propaganda designed to undermine anything governmental.
The last sources are not necessarily in the target countries. Though nor involving the pandemic, the UK Government has recently banned one neo-Nazi group that appears American, but was found to be run from Russia. The nucleii might not even be formal organisations, just anonymous individuals on-line; though some might be acting on state commission.
'''
[i]Why[/i]? the politicising?
We may well ask.
We'd have to ask those presidents, public-health opponents and propaganda publishers themselves, but they won't or can't say, of course. It almost looks as if they want pandemics to spread, huge numbers of people to die, businesses and public services to be crippled. Only they can say why; but I suspect many would be unable to give any sensible, convincing, logical explanation.
I wonder if these types think the same of vaccines against many other really nasty diseases: TB, polio, tetanus, etc.?
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@ArishMell https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/07/20/senator-rand-paul-confronts-a-very-nervous-and-lying-dr-anthony-fauci/
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@hippyjoe1955 Hmmm. I'm not getting drawn into your country's febrile domestic politics. It's not my place and I don't understand them or know about the individuals.
TheSirfurryanimalWales · 61-69, M
MasterDvdC · 61-69, M
This message was deleted by its author.
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
@Stopmakingsense If that is the conclusion you reach after interacting with me, then there is no helping you.
On the bright side, God protects children and fools. So you have that going for you.
On the bright side, God protects children and fools. So you have that going for you.
Stopmakingsense · 56-60, F
@HoraceGreenley no conclusion no more talk.
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
@Stopmakingsense I didn't know that you had that authority.