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Ever done a cost benefit analysis?

Poll - Total Votes: 2
Experiment and see if it works
Don't experiment because studies say it does't work.
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Lets say you have a store with valuables in it. You need to decide if you need to put a lock on the door. The cost $50.00 for a cheap lock. The benefit it will keep people from robbing the store while you are not there. The alternative is to not put a lock on the door and trust that no one ever breaks in to steal stuff. Both are realistic alternatives. Spend $50.00 and keep $5000.00 worth of stuff from being stolen or keep the $50.00 and maybe no one will break in and steal the stuff. I think most people would say that they would buy the lock.

Covid 19 happens. Someone suggests that a very safe drug be used to combat the illness. The history of the drug is very well known and it is so safe most doctors prescribe it without even doing a medical work up to see if it would be ok for you to take it. The cost about $10.00. The potential benefit is it helps thousands of people stay alive. If it doesn't work the patient is out $10.00. Let's look at the alternative. If the drug is not given there will be 10s of thousands of people dead. If the drug works there will be 10s of thousands of people still alive. We know that no drug will ever be 100% effective but lets say it is 25% effective and 75% ineffective. Well of the hundreds of thousands infected 25% more of them will be alive than if the drug is not used. If the drug is completely ineffective the patient is out $10.00.

Now I think the drug should be tried as do 50,000 doctors who recently signed a petition or are already using the drug. What is the cost per patient if it doesn't work? $10.00. What is the cost to the patient if it does work but he can't get it? His life. So the cost is either $10.00 or the patient's life. The benefit is saving $10.00 or saving thousands of patients lives. Why is this even a debate? If it works tremendous upside. Thousands of lives saved. If it doesn't work? The cost is about $10.00.
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Quimliqer · 70-79, M
Your reasoning is solid, the only problem is the profits big pharma will reap for a Covid vaccine will be in jeopardy!!
Elessar · 26-30, M
@Quimliqer HCQ is being used here in Italy since February/March. If it was a cure, 30k+ people would be alive now.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Elessar So then what is your problem? No one said it would cure all disease. However there is a lot of evidence that it cures many of covid. You seem to have a problem with that. Not sure why. Must be a stupid European thing that unless everyone is completely safe all the time no one can ever live. Sucks to be European.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@hippyjoe1955 Again? The problem is that it raises the mortality (2x as much as control) and offer no clinical benefit (1.05x as much as control). Hence no, it's been tested, there's no point in going on treating it as if it's some miracle cure because some lame ass politician keep pushing it.

Sucks to be a moron, independently from the part of the world you're born in.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Elessar Again HCQ does not raise the mortality rate at all. You and your bogus studies. You really need to get out more. Must be a stupid European thing. No body moves no body gets hurt. What a crock. Run along son you are clueless.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@hippyjoe1955 Moron, then why you need a prescription to buy it? Not even in countries with ongoing Malaria epidemic they prescribe it like mineral water, guess why?

The hypocritical crock here is the one who insist pushing something that is proven to be only very marginally effective (if not ineffective) and potentially risky, and yet oppose something that is potentially effective and riskless (masks). Simple because your political agenda told you so. How brainwashed, for Christ sake.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Elessar In a lot of nations you don't need a prescription. You can buy it like you buy a box of cough drops. A few nations like to support their doctors and make you go see them. A friend of mine does a lot of business travel. He has been given HCQ so often he can't count. If he is going to anywhere equatorial he phones his doctor who gives him a prescription over the phone.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@hippyjoe1955 Then go grab your dose, maybe even overdose it you never know, it may potentially be more [i]effective[/i]. 🤦‍♂️ Again:


And again:

[quote][...]
[b]Results[/b]: Meta-analysis of 3 studies (n = 210) on viral clearance assessed by RT-PCR showed no benefit (RR, 1.05; 95% CI, 0.79 to 1.38; p = 0.74), although with a moderate heterogeneity (I2 = 61.7%, p = 0.07). While meta-analysis of 3 studies (n = 474) showed a significant increase in death with HCQ, compared to the control (RR, 2.17; 95% 1.32 to 3.57; p = 0.002), without any heterogeneity (I2 = 0.0%, p = 0.43).

[b]Conclusions[/b]: No benefit on viral clearance but a significant increase in mortality was observed with HCQ compared to control in patients with COVID-19. [/quote] [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32417708/]
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Elessar https://aapsonline.org/preliminary-injunction-sought-to-release-hydroxychloroquine-to-the-public/ Oh and if you have the time the Henry Ford Medical Center has a nice peer reviewed study that indicates HCQ works.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@hippyjoe1955 At least France and Italy (but I guess also the UK) have both employed HCQ and most of the deaths they reported happened *before* it was superseded with more effective treatments, and yet the opening graph on that site put them in the red "HCQ banned" zone, lmao. That makes me wonder how "good" of a source this must be, even before reading the article.

Yeah, link this groundbreaking study here if you have it.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Elessar The point is (beside the one on top of your head) is that giving HCQ to patients in advanced stages of the disease as is the practice in Europe is much less effective than giving the HCQ early in the disease. You do need to learn something about medicine. Too Funny. Run along you terrified little European. The boogie man is real.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@hippyjoe1955 HCQ here was given *at home* as soon as one tested positive and before showing symptoms, but keep making a complete ass of yourself speaking of things you don't know.

HCQ was used since the early beginning of the outbreak until May 26, after which due to it failing RCTs it's been suspended and replaced by more effective treatments (*1). No point in going on with something that doesn't do anything at all.

There have been exactly 32,877 covid-19 deaths before May 25th (*2), and only 2,255 after (*3)

*1: [u]https://www.aifa.gov.it/-/covid-19-sospensione-d-uso-anche-per-la-clorochina[/u]
*2: [u]https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/blob/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni/dpc-covid19-ita-scheda-regioni-20200525.pdf[/u]
*3: [u]https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/blob/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni/dpc-covid19-ita-scheda-regioni-latest.pdf[/u]

Well, since you're fearless I don't get why you're obsessing so much over a treatment. You don't have anything to fear after all, you yourself think the virus is harmless, then why bother?
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Elessar Run along you frightened little European. There is a bed you can hide under in your room. Your studies are bogus and your mind is closed. Fear will do that to you. Have you bought your face shield yet?
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hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Elessar Why would I? I have covid antibodies. I am already immune. Too Funny!!! Have a nice hibernation.
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hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Elessar Because all the scientific evidence shows it works to help people whose immunity can not handle covid by itself. Mine did as does 80% of people. For the other 20% HCQ may help some. Why anyone would deny this drug is beyond comprehension. There are virtually no side effects. So it is all pro and no con to allowing people to take the drug. Weird little Europeans like you think we should all die from the disease rather than have some recover. Seems a bit weird to me but so be it.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@hippyjoe1955 Then, let me re-iterate, why have there been 32,877 covid-19 deaths before May 25th (*1, *2) when it was used in both homes and hospitals for [b]3 months[/b], and only 2,255 after it got replaced by better treatment (*3)?

*1: https://www.aifa.gov.it/-/covid-19-sospensione-d-uso-anche-per-la-clorochina
*2: https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/blob/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni/dpc-covid19-ita-scheda-regioni-20200525.pdf
*3: https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/blob/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni/dpc-covid19-ita-scheda-regioni-latest.pdf
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Elessar Talk to your European masters. They can tell you but won't. Too Funny! Did you fail to look at the chart whose address I gave you?
Elessar · 26-30, M
@hippyjoe1955 European masters, what drugs are you on? Fear has really twisted your brain xD

Yeah, I looked at it and as I explained, that chart makes no sense. If you haven't understand, re-read carefully: there been 32,877 covid-19 deaths before May 25th (*1, *2) when HCQ was used in both homes and hospitals for [b]3 months[/b], and only 2,255 after it got replaced by better treatments (*3). That chart didn't take in account that Italy is probably the country that used HCQ the most so far. And at least France and U.K. have been misrepresented as well.

*1: https://www.aifa.gov.it/-/covid-19-sospensione-d-uso-anche-per-la-clorochina
*2: https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/blob/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni/dpc-covid19-ita-scheda-regioni-20200525.pdf
*3: https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/blob/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni/dpc-covid19-ita-scheda-regioni-latest.pdf
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Elessar If you notice on the chart I sent you Europe has the worst record. Kind of sucks to be European. All there equal outcome nonsense kind of condemned a lot of people to death. Maybe if they had been a bit more UAE the death rates would not be so high. Oh well Europeans are not a very bright lot. Their brightest and best emigrated long ago.
revenant · F
@Elessar [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yu1JDr3rI8]
Elessar · 26-30, M
@hippyjoe1955 If you notice the chart misrepresents countries where HCQ was tried and failed as countries that never tried it, making the entire article entirely worthless. As I explained, Italy (and many others) during 3 months of HCQ compassionate use had 32,877 deaths and only 2,255 once it was replaced nationwide by more effective treatments.

Yeah, sure, Europe is so bad that we aren't the epicenter of the pandemic anymore. xD
Elessar · 26-30, M
@revenant Yeah, we tried Raoult's protocol over here, I'm not 100% sure but I think we started trying HCQ even before him, to then try it also combined with Azithromycin. It wasn't anywhere as successful as initially hoped.
revenant · F
@Elessar they lie....he got muzzled too
Elessar · 26-30, M
@revenant It was tried and failed in both regions/healthcares administrated by the leftwing and ones such as mine administrated by the rightwing or even the anti-establishment parties, so I'm pretty sure if it worked anywhere we would know.