Trying to teach your kids "not to see race" isn't helping anybody

@Quizzical both need to be taught. Similarities are good, but it's the differences that cause issues. It's the differences that lead to racism and discrimination and prejudice. If children are not taught about the differences and how they are okay, they will still notice them, but they will them come to their own assumptions an conclusions about the differences rather than being guided to the conclusion that "yes it's different, but that doesn't mean wrong".

@Quizzical they aren't mutually exclusive though. Anybody with any experience with other races or cultures can see similarities, but that's less interesting. Similarities are a given, we're all human, of course there are similarities. The examples she used of differences are examples because they're interesting or significant, similarities are less of those things.

The problem is people are too afraid to talk about differences due to "anti-racist" activists, but i could write a dissertation on the racism and problems they cause so i'm not gonna get into that lol.

@Anon066 I've always felt it's most effective [b]to[/b] magnify the differences. Because kids will see them anyway. If we are the ones to magnify the differences, not only can we magnify them in a positive light, but we can also MAKE these connections though the differences. "where she comes from, this is a very popular food. We aren't used to it, but that doesn't make it wrong. We can all learn how to make it so we can try it ourselves". You've just magnified a difference, while also normalizing it and building connections. Now the children will still SEE the foreign food, but instead of being disgusted, they will be excited and interested in it. They've just turned a "difference" into a positive connection between a culture.

@Lucyy There certainly should be a balance...

But having differences and diversity rammed down your throat right from the start tends to end up with a negative reaction. Especially when told that you HAVE to respect them.

It's the nature of humanity and tribalism.

If you can accept similarity first then people become more open to accepting difference, and you actually WANT to do so through curiosity.

This is why in matters of diplomacy they try to look for common-ground first. Get the opposing sides to realise they are not so different after all.

@Quizzical it's not "ramming it down their throats" if it's what they're taught from the very beginning. Many children grow up learning multiple languages. Eating foods from different cultures. Traveling and seeing the world and seeing different types of people and places. This gives them a greater understanding, and often a greater tolerance as a result. I never said we shouldn't talk about the similarities as well- but that's not what my post is about. That's a totally different topic than what I'm adressing. We ALREADY point out all the similarities. So much so that we cast aside the fact that not every culture is the same. "I don't see race" is what I'm adressing- the implication that everyone is EXACTLY the same. Which we need to educate against because it's simply ignorance being promoted. Children DO see race. And our options are to educate them on different ways of life and cultures, or to allow them to come to their own conclusions, which will often lead to natural segregation.You can make links through these differences, but at the end of the day, ignoring them and allowing children to remain ignorant leads to the mistreatment of minorities and different raves avoiding eachother due to a lack of cultural understanding and discomfort.

@Lucyy And you are talking about kids. They see the differences.

@Lucyy Well, though we would both like the same result we seem to have diametrically opposed ideas on how to achieve it, lol 🤷‍♂️

@Hasmita they do. Even if we wish they wouldn't. I was 5 when a white girl asked me if my skin was dark because my mom didn't give me baths. And about the same age when another little girl asked me if my hair was so tangled because I didn't have a brush. There weren't mean comments- they were based in ignorance. But teachers immediately shutting it down with "NO that's not appropriate" left those children ignorant to my culture and ultimately left them with the sense of "she's different, and it's bad to know that, so let's avoid her". Whereas they could have been educated on "yes, it is different, let's see why. Isn't it pretty just the way it is?"

@Lucyy Exactly.🙂

@Lucyy Well, frankly that sounds like a crappy teacher.

That would have been a great opportunity to explain a difference casually in a way that indicated that a difference is okay, the reason for there being a difference, and that it's no big deal.

If a child is asking questions then it's because they are genuinely curious, and that needs to be fed in the right way.

@Quizzical children are always curious. They see skin color, hair type, food preferences, etc, even if they don't voice it. And if they are not educated on these differences, they will make their own assumptions. Even if we don't know it, even if they don't know it, children will come up with ways to explain things if they aren't given a real explanation. That girl would have wondered about my skin even it she hadn't asked aloud- and that curiosity would have turned into an assumption. Differences do need to be addressed. That doesn't mean exclude similarities, but raising children in ignorance is not going to help anybody. That's what leads to blatant discrimination- children not being taught that differences are normal and okay

@Lucyy Maybe my own experiences have been different to those of most people then, but if I ever wanted to know something I either asked someone in authority, that person in particular, or looked it up for myself.

Perhaps that's not the way things operate these days though 🤷‍♂️

@Quizzical well you have to look at the system. Children say things like "she's fat" and it gets shut down. Children say "that lady has dark skin and it's ugly" and it gets shut down. They aren't necessarily trying to be mean, they're observing. But if it's shut down once and they're told that to say such things is not appropriate, kids remember that. And younger kids don't really get "manners". So they'll take "don't point out people are fat/black/disabled/etc as "don't point out any differences". So once that is established, children will rarely say anything about it. My little cousin was at the library and noticed a little girl was missing an arm. She had never seen that before. It was new and different and scary. She tried to avoid the kid and would surrender a toy and run away if the girl came near her- because she was ignorant to the situation and didn't understand. So I explained it to her. "some people only have one arm, or one leg. But she still likes to play and make friends. How would you feel if you wanted to make a friend and she kept running away because of something you couldn't help?" And then they became friends. Kids are ignorant since they've never been exposed to so many things. They need to be shown the right direction rather than being forced to make their own assumptions when they have no idea about what's happening. She had to be shown that different didn't mean bad- and that she could still have similarities and play with and be friends with someone who WAS different. But that couldn't have happened if the difference hadn't been explained and normalised.

@Lucyy So, what you did was normalise the other child's condition by explaining the difference AND showing your cousin their similarity.

Have you ever considered becoming a teacher?

@Lucyy it's not just children either. Adults do the same thing.

Talking about racial differences, whether genetic or cultural, has become completely taboo. Look at what's happened to Charles Murray and the other researcher that did work on race and IQ. Look at what happens whenever anyone brings up issues with "black" or other cultures. These differences exist, if we simply pretend they don't we give those who aren't scared to discuss them, usually racists trying to push an agenda, the only voices in the arena. And when they're the only voices people believe them. Just like you said with kids, if they don't understand they draw incorrect conclusions.

For an easy example society destroys anybody that claims there's a difference in average IQ between races. Because of this the majority of people that will admit it are racists that try to use it to claim races with lower iq's are inferior. And because nobody else will talk about it their only opposition is "there is no difference" which is clearly false, so nobody gains an actual understanding and a lot of people believe the racists.

The truth is that yes, there are racial differences in IQ. A certain sect of Jews is highest, followed by asians and whites, and blacks are the lowest. But iq isn't indicative of value, and it isn't even fully indicative of intelligence. IQ tests seem to have a cultural component and they aren't the only metric for intelligence, for example blacks score highest on some verbal intelligence tests. But nobody knows this, because due to stigma the only options people hear are "there is no difference in iq" or "blacks and Hispanics are inferior due to lower iq's." Those are both incredibly stupid.

The refusal to discuss differences in culture is the same. The two societal narratives are "cultures are all the same" or "black/hispanic/whatever culture is inferior." Those are both dumb as fuck. I grew up in the hood. I know the problems with ghetto (some would say black but I don't like terming it that) culture. I know there are problems with glorifying violence and crime and mocking education and real jobs. But I also know the loyalty and generosity that culture breeds, which is missing from many other cultures. When you pretend differences don't exist to ignore negatives you not only ruin any chance at improving negatives, you also ignore positives.

If society would listen to people like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter instead of Ta Nehisi Coates and Jesse Jackson etc racial issues would be all but over imo.

@Quizzical I have, I'm actually going to school for it haha. I've not started quite yet, since I have to get my AA from community college before transferring to a uni to take early childhood education classes, but that's the goal

@Lucyy I think you'll be excellent

@Lucyy literally everything you're saying about kids apples to adults too lol.

@Anon066 it is an issue with adults, but it's harder to change an adults view. If we teach the kids young to be accepting and understanding, then the problem will dramatically decrease within a generation. When parents are the problem, you teach the kids to parent and reduce the problem within a single generation. But we also need to normalise Changing your opinion when presented with new information. We live in a society that looks at someone changing their opinion as them being weak or wrong or not good at forming an argument. If we got rid of the shame culture around that, it would be much easier for adults to see and understand other perspectives.

@Lucyy I think you've hit the nail on the head there...

We live in a time when opinion is so intrinsically linked to our self identity that for some it's easier to remove a limb than to change their mind.

It's a time of ridiculous extremes with people shouting at each other and name-calling rather than intelligently discussing matters.