Do you think severely depressed and/or suicidal people should be allowed to kill themselves?
As in, allowed to be given the means to end their life. Same as putting down a sick dog, isn’t it? What’s [i]really[/i] the benefit of keeping them alive?
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Starcrossed · 41-45, F
In some principle, yes I believe is suicide one's own right.
I agree, there should be better resources for those ready for an end of life choice which would allow one to perform the act clinically and safely - as in painless, not messy, not in secret, with an assured finality [no chance of survival with horrific long term impairment/ TBI].
I try to understand (the best I can) that assisted suicide wouldn't just be used for elderly or those with terminal or incurable chronic physical illness. I do feel that those seeking it to end mental illness including and maybe even especially depression, that there first complete a therapy regime. It would be a free government funded intense long term inpatient or daily outpatient program with multi different types of therapies and theapist teams [as people in therapy find better and worse depending on who they are working with and sometimes it takes a LONG time to find the right match].
I don't think there should be a suicide approval board per se, but we also should at least be some screening and counseling process.
Also if euthanasia became a more acceptable thing I'd hope there would also be more social programs for the grieving surviving family/friends.
I agree, there should be better resources for those ready for an end of life choice which would allow one to perform the act clinically and safely - as in painless, not messy, not in secret, with an assured finality [no chance of survival with horrific long term impairment/ TBI].
I try to understand (the best I can) that assisted suicide wouldn't just be used for elderly or those with terminal or incurable chronic physical illness. I do feel that those seeking it to end mental illness including and maybe even especially depression, that there first complete a therapy regime. It would be a free government funded intense long term inpatient or daily outpatient program with multi different types of therapies and theapist teams [as people in therapy find better and worse depending on who they are working with and sometimes it takes a LONG time to find the right match].
I don't think there should be a suicide approval board per se, but we also should at least be some screening and counseling process.
Also if euthanasia became a more acceptable thing I'd hope there would also be more social programs for the grieving surviving family/friends.
ShaythePanTransMan · 22-25, T
@Starcrossed I do wonder who would fund that. Wouldn’t the therapy and stuff be such an absolute roadblock that no one would actually die? I think your idea is just too complicated. The vast majority of suicidal people, such as myself, do not feel suicidal every single moment of life. Therefore, NO therapist is going to think they should be allowed to kill themselves because there is ability for treatment (in their eyes) in the periods of non-suicidality. Your plan wouldn’t work because of that, money issues aside.
Starcrossed · 41-45, F
@ShaythePanTransMan I think far more deeply depressed individuals would opt for more treatment if it were something they could afford.
ShaythePanTransMan · 22-25, T
@Starcrossed I mean, that’s true too, but that’s a different idea.
Amyrakunejo · F
ShaythePanTransMan · 22-25, T
@Amyrakunejo And how are you sure we have free will?
Amyrakunejo · F
@ShaythePanTransMan Free Will is something we all use whenever we do something we do because we want to, or tell someone no when they order us to do something we don't want to. Those are examples, rudimentary, yes, but they are examples of acts of Free Will.
(I'm still waking as I type this...)
(I'm still waking as I type this...)
ShaythePanTransMan · 22-25, T
@Amyrakunejo Yes, but who is to say we weren’t determined to make those choices anyway? Just because we do what we want to doesn’t mean we have free will.
I am almost finished with an entire course of Philosophy on free will. Currently have an A+.
I am almost finished with an entire course of Philosophy on free will. Currently have an A+.
SameSame · 22-25, F
I think there are a lot of examples of people who formerly felt suicidal but are now much happier and glad that they didn't take their life. For that reason, I think that it's better to encourage treatment and mental healthcare for suicidal people, not facilitate their own suicide.
There will always be people who are seriously determined to end their own life, and maybe in some cases of severe anguish and chronic depression, that even makes sense... But I think the vast majority of cases of suicide is the "permanent solution to a temporary problem" type and we should not encourage that.
There will always be people who are seriously determined to end their own life, and maybe in some cases of severe anguish and chronic depression, that even makes sense... But I think the vast majority of cases of suicide is the "permanent solution to a temporary problem" type and we should not encourage that.
raysam363 · 31-35, F
I think after a proper diagnosis and treatment, if they still feel like that they should have the right. Yes, yes, "your life affects others, not just your own" but being told that your entire life doesn't make things better. It merely increases the guilt they feel.
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ShaythePanTransMan · 22-25, T
@raysam363 I see. The issue is that patients often undersell their problems. I do that constantly to avoid another hospitalization, [i]inpatient “treatment,”[/i] serious medical charges, etc. Everyone does that. Therapists are gonna think the therapy works when it really doesn’t.
raysam363 · 31-35, F
@ShaythePanTransMan Very true, and the field of psychology changes yearly, and sometimes monthly, so definitions are fluid. As for hospitalization, I've said it before but once you reveal too much and get that involuntary 72 hrs, you rarely remain honest with your therapist. I let mine know, and she couldn't stop apologizing but yeah. Some hospitals are worse for you than the original condition.
ShaythePanTransMan · 22-25, T
@raysam363 Yes. What definitions? Yeah...you really can’t anymore. At least, not for those serious breakdowns. That’s true too....
IHateMyLife0MeDie · 41-45, M
Yes. It will be better for society in ways people didn't even think about. For example I think many mass killers, serial killers, etc are suicidal too. If we allowed it those types of people wouldn't go on to do what they do.
That and other problems that I don't have time to get into.
That and other problems that I don't have time to get into.
IHateMyLife0MeDie · 41-45, M
@ShaythePanTransMan yeah but I've seen all too often that many of them tried to take their own life even before they did any horrible crimes.
For example Roy Norris tried to kill himself even before he met Bittaker. Wasn't one of the Columbine high students suicidal also before they did what they did?
Sure there are those who kill themselves after they've done their horrible crimes. But if society can try this out and we see a decline in such crimes, well we'll just have to see.
For example Roy Norris tried to kill himself even before he met Bittaker. Wasn't one of the Columbine high students suicidal also before they did what they did?
Sure there are those who kill themselves after they've done their horrible crimes. But if society can try this out and we see a decline in such crimes, well we'll just have to see.
IHateMyLife0MeDie · 41-45, M
@ShaythePanTransMan
From Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre
"FBI's theory: Psychopath and depressive
The FBI concluded that the killers were victims of mental illness, that Harris was a clinical psychopath, and Klebold was depressive.[38] Dr. Dwayne Fuselier, the supervisor in charge of the Columbine investigation, would later remark: "I believe Eric went to the school to kill and didn't care if he died, while Dylan wanted to die and didn't care if others died as well."[151]
In April 1998 (a year before the shooting), Harris wrote a letter of apology to the owner of the van as part of his diversion program.[36] Around the same time, he derided him in his journal, stating that he believed himself to have the right to steal something if he wanted to.[152][153] By far the most prevalent theme in Klebold's journals is his private despair at his lack of success with women, which he refers to as an "infinite sadness."[154][155] Klebold had repeatedly documented his desires to kill himself, and his final remark in the Basement Tapes, shortly before the attack, is a resigned statement made as he glances away from the camera: "Just know I'm going to a better place. I didn't like life too much."[39][156]
According to this theory—used by Dave Cullen for his 2009 book Columbine— Harris had been the mastermind. He had a messianic-level superiority complex and hoped to demonstrate his superiority to the world. Klebold was a follower who primarily participated in the massacre as a means to simply end his life.[38][157]"
From Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre
"FBI's theory: Psychopath and depressive
The FBI concluded that the killers were victims of mental illness, that Harris was a clinical psychopath, and Klebold was depressive.[38] Dr. Dwayne Fuselier, the supervisor in charge of the Columbine investigation, would later remark: "I believe Eric went to the school to kill and didn't care if he died, while Dylan wanted to die and didn't care if others died as well."[151]
In April 1998 (a year before the shooting), Harris wrote a letter of apology to the owner of the van as part of his diversion program.[36] Around the same time, he derided him in his journal, stating that he believed himself to have the right to steal something if he wanted to.[152][153] By far the most prevalent theme in Klebold's journals is his private despair at his lack of success with women, which he refers to as an "infinite sadness."[154][155] Klebold had repeatedly documented his desires to kill himself, and his final remark in the Basement Tapes, shortly before the attack, is a resigned statement made as he glances away from the camera: "Just know I'm going to a better place. I didn't like life too much."[39][156]
According to this theory—used by Dave Cullen for his 2009 book Columbine— Harris had been the mastermind. He had a messianic-level superiority complex and hoped to demonstrate his superiority to the world. Klebold was a follower who primarily participated in the massacre as a means to simply end his life.[38][157]"
ShaythePanTransMan · 22-25, T
@IHateMyLife0MeDie oh, that is kinda sad.... it doesn’t excuse their crimes, but that’s really sad....
TheunderdogofNY · 36-40, M
I don’t think I have a good answer to that honestly. You would think people that are determined to be sane and competent should be allowed to do this. But then again it just looks like society has failed its people by even allowing this as an option. I don’t really know.
ShaythePanTransMan · 22-25, T
@TheunderdogofNY but society can’t fix them. Better to let them pass on if they can’t live life without such suffering?
TheunderdogofNY · 36-40, M
It’s not about fixing but rather providing alternatives to consider. Allowing someone to end their own life should be an absolute last resort in my opinion. So if alternatives can be provided then yes let’s do so but if not then we’ll it’s your life in the end right?@ShaythePanTransMan
ShaythePanTransMan · 22-25, T
@TheunderdogofNY I guess so.
DestroyerOfIdeologies · 22-25, M