The knee-jerk reaction is always to regulate guns more strictly or to better diagnose mental health, depending on which political lines you toe, but I think this is a fire that you can't put out with just one piece of legislation. It's going to take a holistic approach to solve this
There are a lot of links between mental illness and violence, but mental illness is not a uniquely American thing. It's actually pretty common throughout the world. From Canada to Sierra Leone to Brazil to Indonesia; it's everywhere that literature on mental illness exists, which is basically everywhere.
Gun access is absolutely a game-changer when it comes to shooting deaths and gun violence, but I'm a gun owner myself and haven't thought of shooting anyone but myself. And I have at least 2 comorbid mental illnesses. Gun ownership alone does not explain why people feel the need to inflict carnage on others.
You need to also realize that suicide is one of the fastest rising causes of death in the US, and that drug overdose is also a rapidly increasing problem. Not only are people inflicting violence on others with gun crimes, but also on themselves. Something is driving us towards that violence, that dysfunction, that need to lash out and self-harm.
There's an unhappiness festering within us and rotting away our soul. There's a hole in our hearts that the government can't fill. There's a longing that our outstretched hands can never satisfy. There is no community. There is no safety net or support network. We're all so isolated and alone. There is nowhere for our pent up anger to go, no one to listen, no one to care. So it goes to dark territory like violent thoughts and substance abuse. Because those are the few places left for our pain to go.
Here's a talk I listened to recently that offers insight on this:
@1455spd The most causal research will show that every mass shooting everywhere is committed by someone with serious mental illness. As an American surely must know it is nearly impossible to force people who have mental illnesses to get help or be committed against their will which is NOT the case elsewhere, though I am willing to accept your stated expertise on the mental health standards in Sierra Leone. You can dismiss the mental health issue as not "holistic" enough but I am interested in practical solutions.
@Abrienda There’s been a lot of formal research devoted to this topic as the shootings keep piling up, and there’s no dead giveaway to determine who will turn out to be a shooter and who won’t. Sure, mental illness is definitely correlated with that, but many shooters have not had any previous history of mental illnesses or psychological evaluation. And even among those that had seen therapists, like James Holmes or Nikolas Cruz or Adam Lanza, they weren’t deemed as a threat to others. The mental illnesses route is far from comprehensive enough
It’s far from being practical as well. There are an estimated 43 million adults with mental illnesses in the US alone, and up to 10 million with serious mental illnesses. Where are the funds going to come from to cover that many people? How many more psychiatrists and mental health facilities do we need? Shootings aren’t localized in one place. They can happen in big cities like Orlando and Las Vegas, or in small towns like Newton, CT or Sutherland Springs, TX. How do you cover that much ground in a nation the size of the US? Promoting mental illness treatment as the solution is far too myopic in scope. The US is going to need more than that if it is too get rid of mass shootings
@1455spd What is the the source for your statistic that an "estimated" 43 milion adults have "mental illness"? What forms of "mental illness" does that include? Hoarding? A shoe fetish?
That number is meaningless unless you cite where you got it from, It does show you got the meme minimizing the issue of mental health in mass shooting down pretty good. But made-up facts and feel-good inspirational youtube videos from people whose anecdotal stories are as unverifiable as your 43 percent statistic does not trump real research on the subject (Law & Behavior, December 2006, V.30/6, "Understanding the Relationship Between Mental Disorder and Violence: The Need for a Criminological Perspective").
OPPS! A simple name check shows Aaron Stark is a gun-control advocate (hashtag "neveragain") who appeared on MSNBC news claiming it was the 1994 ban on "assault rifles" is what "stopped" him from becoming a mass shooter...not God, not morality or ethics, not compassion, not stomach flu but GUN CONTROL! Thank GOD for GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS! That is what turned him away from becoming a mass killer! Who would have guessed?
Okay "Space Cadet", is THAT what your "holistic approach" really comes down to? Or is it as disingenuous as your pathetic Mr. Stark?
@Abrienda Wow, the toxicity oozing out of you is corrosive. Your obsessive need to be the smartest person in the room is really off-putting. We’re having a discussion, not a debate. Hence why I don’t include a bibliography for every point I bring up. This has never been an academic website, so sources, while helpful, aren’t required. I’m not trying to persuade anyone, just putting my two cents in. You know, the whole purpose of a Q&A site. If you’re going to keep being petty and dismissive, I’m not going to continue trying to talk to you.
But I’ll address your arguments. I got my figures from the CDC, and similar figures can be found from the American Psychiatric Association, the National Institute of Mental Health, and the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. But let’s assume that all of those agencies are lying and the figure is maybe half that many. You still never answered the questions of how to serve that many people. What is your solution for treating several million mentally ill people spread out in a nation the size of the United States? How do you reach all 19,500+ cities and towns with the appropriate mental health resources?
The mental health approach is not practical on its own, which is why I called for a holistic approach. But I’m glad you mentioned Aaron Stark’s interview because there are some relevant quotes I’m going to pull from him (instead of just cherry picking one to make him seem like an ideologue).
[quote]I think we really need to have a hard look at the effect that guns have. Do we really need to have assault weapons? Do we really need to have people being able to go buy an AR-15 when they’re not able to even buy a pistol because they won’t pass the background checks?
But the thing about my post was, it’s more than just guns. It’s a multi-faceted issue. And if you focus on just the guns, then you’ll ignore the rest, but if you focus on just the mental health, then you’ll have missed the gun part, also
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People say mental health is the issue. And that’s true. A bigger issue was love. I had a severe lack of love, and I really think this kid did too (referencing Nikolas Cruz, the Parkland High School shooter)[/quote]
[quote]I was picked on and bullied. For being fat. For being smart. For not playing sports. So I got angry, and I started hiding weapons around anywhere I hung out at frequently. I had hidden around me knives, sticks, shanks, brass knuckles, whatever. I always kept one in arms reach
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Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. But people with guns kill lots of people[/quote]
Imagine what a person like that would do with an assault weapon.
I’m not this guy’s biggest fan or anything, but his confession gives us insight we don’t otherwise have. How many mass shooters do you get a full explanation from? How much of their testimony did you see or hear personally? He’s putting his family and his reputation on the line by confessing something like that, so it’s not something that should be taken lightly. It merits more of a consideration than the words of any political pundit
There’s a lot at play. Guns, mental health, bullying, love, support, ideology. Focusing on one part alone doesn’t solve the issue. We can’t start locking people up just because they have a mental illness. Or indict them for premeditated murder for owning a gun. If the mass shooting problem is to be adequately addressed, we have to let go of our preconceived notions and take a step back to see that there’s a bigger, complex picture.
@1455spd Ahh...can you spell "sanctimony"? How is life in the Vatican these days?
You are simply advancing an anti-gun agenda and using (a LOT) of feel-good, faux-profound verbiage to hide it. A little more honesty and a lot less deception would spare the rest of us a lot of time in discovering it.
@Abrienda I own two guns. I stated I was a gun owner in my first post. Clearly, you're doing some remarkable mental gymnastics to have this much cognitive dissonance in believing I'm anti-gun
And you still have yet to come up with a single answer regarding the logistics of your "practical" solution. A little more thinking and a lot less vitriol would spare us the time in finding out you have nothing to contribute to this conversation
@1455spd A lot of talk about sainthood going on in your neighborhood?
You have already shown you are disingenuous (I LOVE the "I own two guns"/I'm a gun owner, too, meme - kinda like a KKK member saying he has black friends - to give you credibility and that you have not one but TWO to make sure you drive the point home) and worse when you drag in the pathetic Aaron Stark whose "holistic approach" based on some psychotic episodes in his own troubled life (if they can be believed) is gun control/confiscation (guess you missed his appearance - which I admit would be hard to do - on MSNBC?).
You are right about one thing - I have nothing to add to a conversation with someone who is being dishonest. Funny, but that is how I am with people who are not truthful about what they are really all about.
@Abrienda You called me anti-gun. I was setting the record straight. It's not a conspiracy for people to defend their credibility when faced with false accusations
Can you find a quote where Stark says he's for gun confiscation? Just one? Take your time. I'll wait
And still not a single answer to one of my questions. You're a child imitating an adult. But please, continue posting. You're only showing how weak your argument is by not being able to support it
@1455spd Yes, yes, yes of course ... before I implied but will now say I think you are lying when you say you are a gun owner, trying to obscure the fact you used the "holistic approach" of an anti-gun activist as an argument.
I know it is important for insecure men when called out and bested by a woman here to have the last word so please feel free to reply (and prove my point) without being ridiculed by me as you deserve as I really have more important things to do now...like dusting the furniture again.
Enjoy target practice this weekend with your TWO guns!
