I Believe In Freedom Of Expression

We fought to protect these people and their rights. I find this sad. Humans are more important than flags or individual ideals. Our government is broken we have a rght to express ojr olinions and dienchantment however we are able. That is what this nation was founded on. I fought to protect these leople not shoot them.

If you want to protest something protest the actual issue- burning a flag is just an expression that signify s that you are an ignorant disrespectful piece of shit and nobody should listen to whatever else your trying to bring attention to- I was actually being sarcastic in pointing out that it is obvious that there does need to be a line that shouldn't be crossed- otherwise we could all just go around doing anything we wanted and hide behind- it was an expression of protest- where is the line the flag? attacking people? Bombing the the White House? Where do you think the line should be?

@Makemeluvit: there does need to be a line and violence toward humans or destruction od property which does not belong to us is that line. Breaking laws that is a line. Burning a flg is not against a law and for some it is their only way to make a statement. Some are not as articulate or able to write and speak as well as others. These peolle have the right to be heard as well.

Okay I'm open minded as it gets- when seeing somebody burn a flag- what is it that you hear? I disagree that it is ever anybody's only method of expression- if they were able to accesss a flag and a lighter then they have some ability to communicate their actual cause in some productive way- I just would love to understand what the exact translation is?

@Makemeluvit: i honestly dont know but would want to ask them not shoot them. Begin a dialogue to see if I could help them get their message across in a more productive way.

Burning anything in an of itself is also an act of violence and simply not touching somebody isn't the only way to hurt and disrespect them- for instance: what if every day I walked up to the same person and said: you're an awful person- why don't you just kill yourself- nobody loves you- the world would be better without you- god just do everybody a favor- that way everybody could be happy- would that be okay because I was expressing my opinion? Should my right to do that be protected? I didn't touch them?

Burning something that is yours is not an act of violence. It is free speech. This country has done some shameful things. The citizens have a constitutional right of free speech, which burning your own flag falls under. You would shoot someone in the face for exercising that right? And that somehow makes you patriotic! No, it makes you intolerant and jingoistic.

So does burning a flag- everybody is entitled to their opinion and if you read the whole thread then it is very clear that it was to point out that lines aren't always drawn in what is legal but sometimes what is the right thing to do- if somebody thinks that burning a flag is the right thing to do then we will never agree

Burning a flag of any nation is not an expression of tolerance and it communicates ignorance- it closes lines of communication- it doesn't open them

@Makemeluvit: disagreeing and shooting someone in the face are not exactly on the same order of magnitude. If it were, a lot of my friends would be dead. Perhaps you will admit you went a bit overboard with your statement.

If you aren't fluent in sarcasm then conversing with me will be nearly impossible

I stand by my statement as intended- those that got it understood that the proposition was: there are good and bad ways to express your opinions: you shouldn't choose one such as burning a flag and then hide behind: it's my right: free speech: if I chose to express my opinion by shooting somebody in the face then there's a problem? Why would my chosen method of expression be wrong while that one is right? Clearly a line must be drawn- you shouldn't express your opinion however you want- Nobody has been able to answer my question either- suppose you're burning a flag- to get your message acrossed of course- translate the meaning of that to me exactly- because I am genuinely curious

The message is "I am ashamed of what this country is doing in my name. Doing in the name of all its citizens. I have nothing but contempt for its actions."

A popular sentiment during the pointless Vietnam war which killed and damaged so many of America's young men to prop up a corrupt foreign regime. Lots of flag burning in those days.

America may be the best place to live in the world. But it is a powerful country which sometimes abuses that power. Everything America does is not always right or moral. Some acts are so shameful that citizens choose to symbolize their sentiment by burning their flag to express their contempt of the abuse in a dramatic display of that contempt.

You can love the sinner but hate the sin. That's how I often feel about America's use of force against foreign sovereign countries.

If the point of the protest is to appeal to others to understand your message and support you and this specific act immediately closes many off to whatever it is you are trying to communicate- then it's sabotaging your own cause- you will likely only gain agreement from those that already agreed- I see it as an outward display of the victim mentality and entitlement that is paralysing so much of society today- I see it as an action taken by somebody who has total disregard for all of the people that have sacrificed for them to have all of the privledge that they disregard today- hardly somebody I will want to know more about or empathize with

I have never burned an American flag in protest of anything. And you are correct that there are those such as yourself who will be outraged and alienated by the symbolic statement and as a result be unsympathetic to whatever point the person is attempting to get across.

My point is that the symbolic act is an exercise of a Constitutional right and as such not deserving of being shot in the face (your proposed remedy), imprisoned, fined or stripped of their citizenship (Trump's stated belief). The flag is a piece of fabric, a banner, not a holy relic or The Shroud of Turin.

The best symbolic act would be to either actually do something to better your position or leave- America isn't short of opportunity- just people who don't have the ambition or work ethic necessary to truly take advantage of it- they will remain victims of themselves burning flags won't improve their situation and won't gain them any sympathy from me

As far as it being a "constitutional right" isn't that ironic? Burning the flag that has symbolized all of those that died and sacrificed to put you in the position to have any constitutional rights to hide behind- I love irony and that has to be the best little tidbit of irony I have seen on here all day...

So, to sum up the thread for those who tuned in late: Makemeluvit has the utmost contempt for anyone who burns an American flag in protest. She disagrees with the Supreme Court ruling that doing so is a Constitutionally protected act of free speech. She feels a line must be drawn concerning what constitutes free speech, and flag-burning should be placed outside that line. Trump agrees, and apparently Hillary says she does also. Makemeluvit and others here would like those who burn flags to be punished in some way. Somewhere between shooting them in the face with a high-powered carbine to stripping them of citizenship.

I believe the Supreme Court pronouncements are the law of the land. I don't take it personally if someone burns their own American flag as a method of communicating outrage at our government's military misadventures or other actions. I do not view it as an act of disrespect to those who serve in our armed forces. I can even see it as an act in sympathy for those who ultimately pay the price for our government's misguided acts of war and aggression.

Somehow, flag-burners' work ethic and the economic opportunity in the United States was injected into the discussion. I can't really explain how those issues relate to the discussion.

Did I miss anything?

Again we must respect the rulings of the Supreme Court and the constitution at the same time that we are establishing that it is our right to completely disregard the nation that established it.. in our current democracy of hypocracy it unfortunately makes sense that there are people that rather then choosing to work and take actions that would make an actual difference- (economic position wasn't my intended point but it also fits) to further their cause- would opt to take the easier "symbolic" method

as previously stated my perception of those that choose to burn the flag may be presumptuous but I have already established my idea of what a person who chooses such an ignorant method to try to deliver their message must be like- and it isn't positive- they lost the opportunity to make any appeal to me by choosing such action

I agree. Burning the flag is not the way to get a Nobel peace prize. You have to work for it, not just strike a match.

There, we've found common ground. Let's quit while we're ahead. I appreciate your passion regarding the subject, and respect your willingness to share your thoughts.

We can run around the same points repeatedly but unfortunately I don't believe we'll ever come to any agreement on this- I simply can't justify the action or motivations of a flag burner- I can't justify doing the wrong thing even if it's for the right reasons and I won't ever empathize with anybody who has so little appreciation for being American and all of the privledges that come with it- that rather then choose to protest specific issues- choose such symbolism- I do and will continue to believe that the spoiled American that chooses this should be disinherited of all of the opportunities that come with the progress that is being made continuously on their behalf- America gets better every day and I have no respect for those that don't live and appreciate that

And I commend your ability to articulate those thoughts as well as you have.

I appreciate your thoughts on this as well- and it's refreshing to have a discussion on such a subject- that's my reason for being on this site- to gain insight from others that have viewpoints different then mine

I am officially declaring this thread closed. Godspeed, and more luck than you need.