I Have Legitimate Concerns About Islam And That's Not Bigotry

To be blunt, their [Western] efforts to assist Muslims and other minorities are futile because, by postponing or at best prolonging the process of their transition to modernity — by creating the illusion that one can hold on to tribal norms and at the same time become a successful citizen — the proponents of multiculturalism lock subsequent generations born in the West into a no-man’s-land of moral values. What comes packaged in a compassionate language of acceptance is really a cruel form of racism. And it is all the more cruel because it is expressed in sugary words of virtue.
Asked whether suicide bombing can be justified as a measure to defend Islam, 26 percent of American Muslims age eighteen to twenty-nine said yes. That is one quarter of the adult American Muslims under the age of thirty, and no matter how you count the number of Muslims in America (estimates vary from 2 million to 8 million), that is a lot of people.
There are many good men and women in the West who try to resettle refugees, scold their fellow citizens for not doing more, donate money to philanthropic organizations, and strive to eliminate discrimination. They lobby governments to exempt minorities from the standards of behavior of Western societies; they fight to help minorities preserve their cultures, and thy excuse their religion from critical scrutiny. These people mean well, I have no doubt. But I believe that their well-intentioned activism is now a part of the very problem they seek to solve.– Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Somali-born American activist, writer, and politician.

These future United States presidents questioned the ambassador as to why his (Islamic) government was so hostile to the new American republic even though America had done nothing to provoke any such animosity. Ambassador Adja answered them, as they reported to the Continental Congress, ‘that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise’.– Thomas Jefferson. U.S. president addressing the Continental Congress about the brutal pirate attacks of the Muslim Ottoman Barbary (1801–1805 and 1815).
If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whomever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thorough silenced and concealed.– Zakariya Razi (Rhazes) Persian chemist, philosopher and physician, 865 – 925AD.

Quran… an accursed book…. So long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world.– William Ewart Gladstone. Prime Minister of the United Kingdom four times between 1868 and 1894 (1809–1898).

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Memetic · 56-60, F

Northwest · 56-60, M
Yes, I do and I see it everyday

Can you please name a few of these activist groups. Please keep in mind that I said "By "traditions", I mean: abusing women, denying them their rights, female genital mutilation, polygamy, etc."

Do your own research. You have been spouting your opinions but when I do, all of a sudden you want names and facts. It works both ways buddy.

"Did you even read what Hirsi Ali said? Or you just want to spout your unsupported opinions?"

You mean the years-old quote you provided? Then yes. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with her evolution, from someone who wanted to defeat Islam, to her most recent book, Heretic, released last year, where she proposes the modernization of Islam, through supporting reformist Muslims.
I have read Hirsi Ali's books an applaud her for working towards reform. Are you actually going to hold that against her? Now you are being completely ridiculous. It's HER religion. She has a right to want to reform it being a Muslim woman that endured genital mutilation. How misogynistic of you to ridicule her!!

Nevertheless, how does what I said contradict what you quoted? Did I say that I advocate maintaining the "traditions". No.
Yes. That is why you are defending them for months now

Have YOU lived the life of an oppressed Muslim woman?

Do I need to do that to understand their plight? Did anything I wrote, ever, indicate that I misunderstand the suffering they go through? Or that I am turning a blind eye?
You ridiculing her for wanting reform of her OWN religion speaks volums

Muslims do not want to transcend their religion or integrate into western culture. BIG deiference when comparing to other religions

I am simply going to quote you here: "Or you just want to spout your unsupported opinions?"

Do you even read the news?

"Because they are the minority. They will show their true colors like they do in UK"

Perhaps you can be more specific. Do you have anything specific, indicating that mainstream UK Muslims are engaged in a conspiracy to Islamefy the country?

Read the news

Northwwest, I am not interested in debating you because you obviously live under a rock and don't read the news or read the news in a denial and excuse mode. I made the mistake of thinking that you were a rational logical person. But you are not and I am not going to give you citations and links to educate you when you are clearly not interested in learning but just being defensive. So don't respond to my posts anymore

Northwest · M

@Quest2013: if we maintain focus on the US, do you really think any major activist groups are lobbying to allow Muslims to retain the "traditions" of their old countries?

By "traditions", I mean: abusing women, denying them their rights, female genital mutilation, polygamy, etc.

Yes, you may find a misguided person, like the Seattle doctor, who proposed that hospitals honor Somalian and Ethiopian refugees requests for genital mutilation, but his proposal lasted for about a nanosecond.

It is no secret, that, in places like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, Qatar, Indonesia, and some other places, Muslims hate the West. I would not want to be a non-Muslim, or a woman, living in any of these countries.

However, there are plenty of Muslims who want to flee these same oppressive societies, and experience freedom.

Perhaps, some of the donors/activists, are naive (well intended as they may be), but most are not. We see Islam for what it is: a violent religion, in bad need of reform. It would be ridiculous to pretend that because some of the verses of the Qur'an may mention peace, it's a religion of peace. This is absolutely not the case.

People can transcend their religious books, retain the good parts, and freely embrace free and open societies. Is the Old Testament applied, as is, in Israel? Do Catholics still keep slaves? Is the Pope still fighting wars?

We can have perpetual enmity, or we can try to help create change, whenever we get the chance. I choose the latter, but I am not falling asleep at the wheel either. Yes, I cringe at the sight of a Hijab, walking, like a moving tent, behind her husband, inside a Costco. I resist the urge to take one of those Costco, 5 gallon cashew jugs, and bash him over the head with it, but that's only because I assume that the woman wearing it has no choice, and I would be willing to bet that she has no choice. I do hold hope though, that her kids, raised in an open society, will have a choice.

Omar Mateen, was reported to the FBI by his friend. An American-Pakistani, who was concerned that Omar was watching jihadist videos (never mind that Mateen did not know the difference between Hezballah and ISIL).

We also see the futility of an open war against 1.6B people.

For an example of thinking that does not work, see @Mortaritaville07's response to your post.

Lastly, if 25% of American Muslims see no problem with suicide bombings, and assuming that we have 3M Muslims in the US, how come we've only had a handful of crazy attacks, and not 750,000 attacks? The simple answer would be that these people chose to make the US home, so why would they want to destroy their home? I think, as a Western society, can work with this. Those who have suffered at the hands of Islam, will have a hard time relating to what I'm saying.

Northwest · M

Yes, I do and I see it everyday

Can you please name a few of these activist groups. Please keep in mind that I said "By "traditions", I mean: abusing women, denying them their rights, female genital mutilation, polygamy, etc."

"Did you even read what Hirsi Ali said? Or you just want to spout your unsupported opinions?"

You mean the years-old quote you provided? Then yes. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with her evolution, from someone who wanted to defeat Islam, to her most recent book, Heretic, released last year, where she proposes the modernization of Islam, through supporting reformist Muslims.

Nevertheless, how does what I said contradict what you quoted? Did I say that I advocate maintaining the "traditions". No.

Have YOU lived the life of an oppressed Muslim woman?

Do I need to do that to understand their plight? Did anything I wrote, ever, indicate that I misunderstand the suffering they go through? Or that I am turning a blind eye?

Muslims do not want to transcend their religion or integrate into western culture. BIG deiference when comparing to other religions

I am simply going to quote you here: "Or you just want to spout your unsupported opinions?"

"Because they are the minority. They will show their true colors like they do in UK"

Perhaps you can be more specific. Do you have anything specific, indicating that mainstream UK Muslims are engaged in a conspiracy to Islamefy the country?

I will quote you again: "Just because something is difficult to do does not make it wrong"

Mortaritaville07 · 56-60

Memetic · 56-60, F

@Quest2013: if we maintain focus on the US, do you really think any major activist groups are lobbying to allow Muslims to retain the "traditions" of their old countries?

Yes, I do and I see it everyday

However, there are plenty of Muslims who want to flee these same oppressive societies, and experience freedom.
They don't know HOW to be free. Which is why they move west and fight to follow their idiotic Sharia lws. Did you even read what Hirsi Ali said? Or you just want to spout your unsupported opinions? Have YOU lived the life of an oppressed Muslim woman?

People can transcend their religious books, retain the good parts, and freely embrace free and open societies. Is the Old Testament applied, as is, in Israel? Do Catholics still keep slaves? Is the Pope still fighting wars?
Muslims do not want to transcend their religion or integrate into western culture. BIG deiference when comparing to other religions

We can have perpetual enmity, or we can try to help create change, whenever we get the chance. I choose the latter, but I am not falling asleep at the wheel either. Yes, I cringe at the sight of a Hijab, walking, like a moving tent, behind her husband, inside a Costco. I resist the urge to take one of those Costco, 5 gallon cashew jugs, and bash him over the head with it, but that's only because I assume that the woman wearing it has no choice, and I would be willing to bet that she has no choice. I do hold hope though, that her kids, raised in an open society, will have a choice.
They do have a choice. They choose not to choose

We also see the futility of an open war against 1.6B people.
Just because something is difficult to do does not make it wrong

Lastly, if 25% of American Muslims see no problem with suicide bombings, and assuming that we have 3M Muslims in the US, how come we've only had a handful of crazy attacks, and not 750,000 attacks?
Because they are the minority. They will show their true colors like they do in UK

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