I Am Enjoying Being A Muslim

@Nomar67: May I ask why?

Yiure basins your beliefs on the Koran which is flawed because it instructs to get rid of others who don't share your beliefs .

@Nomar67: That's not true.

[Quran 60:8]
[quote]"As for those who have not fought against you for your religion, nor expelled you from your homes, God does not prohibit you from dealing with them kindly and equitably. God loves the equitable."[/quote]

@Madeleine: Quran 2:193 "fight them until there is no more fitnah and that worship is for allah"

@pianoplayingsteve Who is "them" in this verse?

@Madeleine Followers of "pagan" religions that Muhammed did not like. During this period, Muhammed was attacking trade routes and small villages, but wasn't overly powerful at the time. Even though he was antagonising this aggression, the larger pagan tribes allowed an agreement of no fighting during a certain period that was an agreed peace treaty, of which muhammed said don't fight anyone, but then once those sacred months are over, do what I quoted.

@pianoplayingsteve No.

[Quran 2:190-194]
[quote]"And fight in the cause of God [b]those who fight you[/b], but [b]do not commit aggression[/b]; God does not love the aggressors. And kill them wherever you overtake them, [b]and expel them from where they had expelled you[/b]. Oppression is more serious than murder. But do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, [b]unless they fight you there[/b]. [b]If they fight you, then kill them[/b]. Such is the retribution of the disbelievers. But [b]if they cease, then God is Forgiving and Merciful[/b]. And fight them until there is no oppression, and worship becomes devoted to God alone. But [b]if they cease, then let there be no hostility except against the oppressors[/b]. The sacred month for the sacred month; and sacrilege calls for retaliation.[b] Whoever commits aggression against you, retaliate against him in the same measure as he has committed against you[/b]. And be conscious of God, and know that God is with the righteous."[/quote]

@Madeleine Yes, I am familiar with the full quote, and I am also familiar with the historical context. When the Quran says "oppressors" it is talking about the pagan tribes that were sick of Muhammed insulting their gods and trying to cause division among their people. Note how, even though Muhammad is claiming to be oppressed, he can't help but add that once you beat them, then you should force them to worship his god? "and worship becomes devoted to god alone". That part is not needed whatsoever. If muhammed has destroyed supposed oppression, why should making people follow his god be needed?

@pianoplayingsteve

[quote]"and expel them from where they had expelled you"[/quote]
Explain it.

@Madeleine Easy. Mecca kicked Muhammed and his followers out because they were sick of him mocking their gods and causing problems.

@pianoplayingsteve So you believe it's justified to expel people from their homes and to take their properties just because you disagree with their beliefs?

@Madeleine When they are attacking the inhabitants yes, it was common to expel murderers. And when muhammed got kicked out, he sought protection in medina. Yet when he become powerful enough, he butchered them, too!

@pianoplayingsteve Give me one incident when Muslims attacked disbelievers during their time in Mecca.

@pianoplayingsteveAnyone who doesn't worship that god are considered evil.

@softspokenman

[Quran 109]
[quote]Say, “O disbelievers. I do not worship what you worship. Nor do you worship what I worship. Nor do I serve what you serve. Nor do you serve what I serve. You have your way, and I have my way.”[/quote]

@Madeleine You've still not told me how making sure the "oppressors" worships his god has anything to do with protecting himself.

@Madeleine Yeah, looks good on paper. So does don't murder, lie, cheat, steal, abuse women, children, elderly, ETC. ETC. like a lot of the other religions say on paper. And if all that were true life would be a beautiful experience for everyone instead of the living hell we live in.

@pianoplayingsteve Not until you answer my question first.

@softspokenman True, if everyone practiced Islam correctly, the world would have been a better place.

@Madeleine Yeah and it must be all the other religions also, all the ones that can't agree on which one is the right one because theirs is the only right one. And we have Never heard of a holy war either. Must have been those evil non believers. Religion has done such a wonderful job of improving the human condition. But keep praying because it will happen any minute.

@softspokenman Mutual respect should always be there.

@Madeleine Yeah, that sounds good on paper also.

@softspokenman People break rules at all levels, not only religious. So maybe we want to blame people, not the rules.

@Madeleine People write the rules.

@softspokenman I believe that God created us for a purpose and He sent revelation to guide us to that purpose.