I Am Enjoying Being A Muslim

@Peekaboo: the choice often is wear it or get abused

@UserNameSW: I was hoping Madeleine would answer.

@Peekaboo: Thank you for your question. There are women who are abused and forced to wear it. But also, there are women who are abused and forced to take it off. In some countries, women are kicked out of jobs and schools for wearing hijab, and some are thrown in jail for wearing niqab. This is my issue. There should be freedom of choice to all women to wear what they want.

@Madeleine: I agree, as long as their faces are visible when security must prevail. The part I really don't get is how Muslim garb (and Nun habits) pleases God. I think any reason for this being true must be severely flawed. Wouldn't full nudity please God more?

@Peekaboo: Modesty is always beautiful, whether someone is doing it for religious or non religious reasons. The aim of Islam is to discipline us to be the best version of ourselves as human beings.

@Madeleine: where are women jailed for wearing a niquab?

@UserNameSW: In France.

In France you'd get a fine, not jail.

@UserNameSW: And you agree with that?

@Madeleine: You agree there is nowhere that jails women for choosing to wear it (or forced to wear it).

Do you know that many countries stone, kill, rape, or jail women for not wearing it.

That doesn't sound like a universal choice

@UserNameSW: When a woman fails to pay the money, she is jailed in France. Women shouldn't be punished for choosing what to wear. I am against both types of oppression. Hijab is never a form of oppression, people make it appear so.

@Madeleine: people do not go to jail for wearing a niquab.

They may theoretically go to jail for not paying the associated fine (never happened yet).

They do every day get raped, stoned, or killed for not wearing one.

I understand your point that it should be a choice, and that choice should be freely made. However the negative consequences come from one side.

@UserNameSW: The idea of making a woman pay money for wearing niqab is a disaster in itself, in a country that claims "human rights" and "freedom of speech". I don't understand how you underestimating the issue.

In Islam, wearing hijab is commanded in the Quran, but there's no penalty in the Islamic law for not wearing it. It is easy to make claims but when did women get stoned and killed for not wearing hijab. Give me a case when it happened.

Rape is a big crime in Islam. In fact, the Islamic law is probably the only system that gives capital punishment for rape.

Women should be free to wear what they want, when they want. I wouldn't go so far as to say disaster. I do understand your disagreement with laws restricing any choice.
No one has been jailed for choice of wearing face covering.

Case where women punished for dressing by choice.

Islamic militants have shot and killed a Somali Christian woman because she declined to wear a veil as prescribed. 27 October 2009

Vigilantes kill 40 women in Iraq’s south “The women of Basra are being horrifically murdered and then dumped in the garbage with notes saying they were killed for un-Islamic behavior, and dress.
December 9th 2007


Amira Osman Hamid faces a possible whipping if convicted of violating Sudan’s laws governing morality 15 November 2013


Checian woman in her mid-30s said she was punched in the face by a man in islamic dress after refusing to put on a headscarf he had given her. 20 august 2010

An Al-Qaeda front group in Syria says girls in a village it controls will not be allowed to attend school unless they wear islamic clothing. 28 September 3013

Malak Al Shehri, shared a photograph of herself without a hijab or abaya on a street in Saudi Arabia’s capital city, Riyadh. Penalty includes lashing.
Saudi Arabia enforces a strict dress code for women in public. Dec 13th, 2016


Punishment for rape?
India 14 years
France 15 -30 years
North Korea - death by firing squad
China - death by single bullet the spinal cord (lesser penalty is castration)


The Saudi Justice Ministry increased punishment -- including 200 lashes and 6 months in prison --meted out to the victim. Yes the victim. (The rapists got a 6 month sentence ... served less than 2)
She was ganged raped by 7 men
She is punished again for it.
20- November 2007


2002, 15 schoolgirls died when officers of the morality police would not let them out of their burning school building - and barred firefighters from saving them - because the girls weren't wearing the headscarf and black cloak that all women must wear in public.

@UserNameSW: All of these are disasters. The way those women have been killed is murder and it's against the Islamic law. Islam is not being practiced fully in any country nowadays, and there are many groups use it to fulfill their agenda.

When I talk about the teachings of Islam, I talk about what the Quran and Hadith say, not what some people practice in the name of Islam. In fact, in the Quran, when someone speaks badly of a woman to ruin her reputation, he is lashed 80 lashes. How about rape?

[Quran 24:4]
[quote]"Those who accuse chaste women, then cannot bring four witnesses, whip them eighty lashes, and do not ever accept their testimony. For these are the immoral."[/quote]

[Quran 24:23]
[quote]"Those who slander honorable, innocent, believing women are cursed in this life and in the Hereafter. They will have a terrible punishment."[/quote]

Give me a law that protects women to this extend.

@Madeleine: there are laws I the Islamic world that punish the victim of rape. Who can that be justified as fair?

@UserNameSW: Laws in the Muslim world are not all Islamic. Some are traditional practices that have no bases in the Islamic teachings. There's no text in the Quran nor Hadith says that a victim of rape should be punished. The Islamic law defends victims.

@Madeleine: those that make the laws, say it does.

Those that have spent their lives in islamic study say it does.
They base their laws in islamic tradition.

Many imams and clerics say it does.

@UserNameSW: Respectfully, I don't think you understand my point. Anyone and everyone can say whatever they like. Give me a respectful Muslim scholar says that a rape victim should be punished. And that scholar must base his/her opinion on scripture (Quran and Hadith). Otherwise, this opinion is not valid. Plus, which event in the history of Islam indicates that rape victims were punished?

The legal system of Saudi Arabia is based on Sharia, Islamic law derived from the Qur'an and the Sunnah (the traditions) of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. The constitution is the koran.
Saudi general court, made up of Islamic scholars. This is the high court of Saudi Arabia.
That sounds like a group that would understand the koran and their prophet.

This court sentenced a 19 year old victim of rape to 200 lashes.
11-november-2012

@UserNameSW: Again. I don't see any Quran or Hadith provided to support your claim. The Islamic law protects victims, not punish them. I already provided text from the Quran requires 80 lashes to anyone falsely accuse a woman of adultery. Any sane person would never believe that this same system would punish a victim of rape. There's no country, nowadays, implements the Islamic law precisely, otherwise, you wouldn't see banks all over the Muslim world, since dealing with usury (interests) is one of the biggest sins in Islam.

I gave you a real concrete example of when it did happen. Are you saying UT didn't happen? Are you saying it wasn't done by "experts" in islam?

Let's try again.
In Saudia Arabia. 11-november-2012. A wictim of rape is lashed 200 tines after conviction in 2 courts, first one said 90 lashes. Superiour court increased or to 200.

Saudi court made of experts in kooran.

You have a different interpretation, I get that.

Different people have different interpretations.

My original point is that people have different interpretations, each believes theirs to be right.

The Islamic Etiquette of Disagreement, was created by imams and clerics. They wrote this because of the disagreements that exist.

If there was one and only one universally accepted interpretation there would not be Shia and Sunni. There would not be wahhabi and ismaili. There would not be the 100s of denominations.

@UserNameSW: My point is.. Interpretation of what? Give me the text.