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I Am Advocate Of Islam

To start, I would like to point out that Im an atheist so, Im not bias towards one religion or another. I think the problem in the West is thinking of Islam in a solid, completely unified body of ideals. Muslims often disagree with eachother on religion/politics/morality etc, but I think also that there is difficulty in defining what it is within the Muslim faith in regards to the current issues in the world. "Salafism" is the real culprit and I believe it's teachings are the enemy of all the world, to include Muslims.

Muslim culture has given much to the world (modern arithmetic is essentially a Muslim invention), it's too sad to watch the world get torn apart by fascism
SW-User
@Ronin
Yes, I am Sunni. All Salafi are.
Personally I prefer to call myself 'just a Muslim' instead of sticking with a label.
Basically Salafi are Sunni and Sunni are about Salafism. It's not a separate sect. The Salafi methodology opposes what creates division and calls on Muslims to unite upon core values. It's a movement and there are adherents to the Salafi methodology in every school of thought within Sunni Islam. A true Salafi is actually a Muslim from the first three generations of Islam, the companions and the generation after them and the one after that. Those generations are called the "salaf us-saalih" (the pious predecessors). The Salafi movement refers back to the consensus of those generations and their methodology in interpretation and legislation. That's actually the basis of Sunni Islam. Nowadays there are a four main schools of thought (madh-hab) and a few smaller ones. They don't oppose each other. They are the result of there being more valid opinions on some matters, but they believe in general consensus and honour each other as being correct. Sunni Muslims follow these schools of thought, which differ only slightly in later legislation (fiqh) and how to derive that from the Qur'an and the Sunnah. The Salafi movement is not a madhhab or separate sect. It's about the basis of all of them: Interpretation of the Qur'an and Sunnah upon the methodology of the salaf us-saalih. The great Imams that the schools of thought/fiqh were named after did just that. The Salafi movement is about reviving and reminding about the basis before all division (instead of just following a later school of thought and its methodology without referring it back to where it came from). Modern Salafi (try to) more strictly adhere to what would be condoned by the early generations and stay away from newly invented matters (bidah, innovation) in the religion. It's largely about a preference to re-assess authentic evidence (and honouring authentic scholarship) as opposed to wandering off in wild philosophy and possibly creating conjecturism by involving personal opinion. It's a more evidence-based approach. This is possible from within any of the schools of thought as well as separate from them AND it leaves room for several valid opinions on matters. It's a methodology, not a sect or separate group or school of thought. It's actually a call for unity upon core values.

I suggest you look up more in the link page I gave. Those are articles by people of knowledge. This is just a quick brainstorm by me as introduction and I'm not of any level close to any of them. I tried to stick to what I (think to) know is backed by what authentic scholars say (which actually is part of salafi methodology ;) )
This is what I can say about it at the moment with my limitations in time and knowledge. I can't do much better in between waking up and my first morning coffee. lol
SW-User
Breathingeasy
I'll try to keep this short since you insist on using a term I said is used in a derogatory manner and also an incorrect term. It's not completely synonymous with salafism, but that's a longer story.

Daesh is sometimes referred to as gangster Islam (as an indication of its type) and I don't use the term IS for them because of what it spells out as. That also is an incorrect term or at least not something I or any other Muslim should use for them. It would be like voicing recognition.

You would know better than what you're saying if you had looked into it. What is operation "Northern Thunder" (or Storm, depends on translation)? There is a huge Islamic coalition and Muslim countries are fighting Daesh. Scholars (including and even mainly salafi scholars) write tons of articles about terrorism not being jihad, and refutations of the group and its policies get published in abundance. Not all media are interested, but it's there.

I didn't jump in here to have a debate about them though. I just wanted to mention my disagreement with pointing at salafism as the culprit. That's not about this deviant group at all.
Cyan: I believe there is peer pressure trying to push the Imans agenda on ignorant people .
Because I am an outsider I will call it Wahhabism .
I know ISIS ( as we refer to it in my country ) does not represent all Islam. But o would like to see Shiite , Sunnis , Suffis and all others United and fighting against that common enemy .
I would like to see a statement claiming for female rights and disowning killings of people who are considered infidels .
Memetic · 56-60, F
Nice spin 😀 if i had a dime for every muslim on sw pretending to be an atheist, I'd be rich 😀😀
If you're going to lie first look up definition of atheists. We do not defend ANY religion. You fake muslim/atheists are giving all atheists a bad name.
I'm gonna start being a fake muslim and talk shit about pedophile mohammad and allah the moron. How do you like that?
Ronin8510 · 36-40, M
@cyan-eyed I see your point, then clearly there is still much general confusion on what constitutes the definition of Salafism and the ideology of Daesh and its followers. I will read the lettertobaghdadi you mentioned, do you have any other good sources? My reading list is hopelessly large but I do not object to good additions
Ronin8510 · 36-40, M
@Cyan-eyed, If you are indirectly calling me a bigot, thats fine I guess but I think you are completely misunderstanding my intent. I am seaking understanding by dialog and research. I speak with Muslims in the US, EU, and Turkey about this stuff. You can say that there is no real Caliphate but there literally is large governing body headed by one known as Abu Bakr al-Bagdadi that claim to adhere to the ideology in question. If you don't want to believe that they aren't an "actual Caliphate" that's fine but they believe that you are wrong.

My issue isn't with beliefs of others but with those who push their beliefs on others. When I use the term "Salafism" to describe fundamentalism, it is one used by Muslims as well. It is not a personal attack on you.

What is your description of what true Salafism is then?
SW-User
@Ronin
I could give information about a few different things mentioned. Maybe you want it about one subject specifically, so I'll just put up a few shorter articles first.

This is an article from a salafi scholar speaking out against suicide bombings:
http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-Advocate-Of-Islam/3151481
On that I have a lot more, including refutations against Daesh.

A couple of articles about "Northern Thunder":
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/saudi-arabias-master-plan-against-isis-assad-iran-syria-15221
http://saudigazette.com.sa/world/mena/can-coalition-daesh-boost-syria-iraq-gains/
These are just two google results for "northern thunder"

A page with links to explanations about salafi methodology:
https://abdurrahman.org/salafiyyah/
This is more aimed at Muslims but there are many links on the page (also two about wahhabism). I have more on all subjects there.

Let me know if you meant something else or if you want more on one subject specifically. I purposely did not post pdf links or large articles.
I am atheist as well . And I like your provoking thoughts . And I agree , the vast majority of the Muslim world is good. However , I would like to see more self criticism and rejection .
Yes, Salafism wants to go back to very primitive and textual interpretation of the Quoran .
But also Wahhabism has infected and triggered the current terror groups. All of this promoted and tolerated at first by the Monarchy in Saudi Arabia .
Ronin8510 · 36-40, M
@ Memetic - I'm so glad you speak for every atheist in the world and how we should conduct our thoughts on the world around us! Being against bigotry, doesn't give "atheists a bad name"...but your view does demonstrate your acute arrogance and epic ignorance.
SW-User
@Ronin
Please don't translate my words as insults when they're merely descriptive and an attempt to explain my view. I did not call you names. I did mean what I said.

What Daesh claim to believe is irrelevant to recognition of them by Muslim scholars. They and other Muslims judge the policies, the words and the facts by the teachings of Islam. There are many sources online where you can look that up (the site lettertobaghdadi.com is a famous example). There is much more and many types of Islamic publications on the subject.

If any type of mafia waves your nation's flag, would that mean that they can speak for that nation? Of course not.

Separatists are never exemplary of the group as a whole. The term says that already. Again though: I did not intend to debate about them.
SW-User
It's nice that you call on people to not generalise but salafism is not "the culprit" as you say. It's the fastest growing religious movement at the moment, and there is nothing wrong with that: It's about adherance to the principles of Islam as taught by the early generations, and that in itself is an essential and common part of Sunni Islam. Those who claim to more strictly adhere to just that come in a few different types, but in itself salafism is the basis of Islam. If anyone thinks that the fundaments are that wrong, he actually says that about all that the entire religion is based on.

You're basically doing the same as you say others do. You're just aiming at a smaller group. It's still unjust though.
@Memetic : lol! Your brutal and childish display of ignorance taking advantage of the anonymity of the Internet... Is just laughable .
SW-User
I did NOT say the issue is them. You call me the enemy of the world... I disagree.
I won't be debating that, but for me personally there's no difference in what you claim others do and what you do.

There is no Islamic Caliphate at the moment and Daesh is not based on Islamic policies. No, they are not real salafists (wahhabist is a term you'll have a hard time finding adherents to. It's an incorrect term used by outsiders. Most see it as a derogatory term.)
Ronin8510 · 36-40, M
@ Cyan-eyed, This is all good to start! I have actually been reading the Quran in my free time to gain clearer understanding so the added articles on Salafi is a good compliment to this endeavor. This is the first time I have heard of Northern Thunder and after researching it, I think it sounds great however I wonder how the military coup in Turkey will affect the integrity of the operation.

Can I ask where you are from? I'm assuming you are Sunni correct?
Ronin8510 · 36-40, M
@Iamafreespirit - I think that he has some very good points about Muslim society in certain areas of the world. There are many Muslims are calling for reform but as long a Wahhabism/Salafism enjoys "legitimacy", reform is going to see a lot of pushback from IS and those who bankroll them
Ronin8510 · 36-40, M
@cyan-eyed where do you see the issue is them? From my view according to what i've been reading, discussing, etc. Is that the brand of Islam pushed by the Caliphate is "salafism/wahhabism"? Is this incorrect?
What have they given us lately?

watch this brave Muslim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZMXV_PRXk

 
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