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I Just Want To Tell U That Islam Is Not Terrorism

How is it not terrorism when your holy book tells you to kill unbelievers? How is it not terrorism when you are trying to force your beliefs and laws onto the whole world? How is it not terrorism when the only ones your respect are each other? Everything you do and say is a form of terrorism, even the so-called moderates. Even if you're not out there actively killing unbelievers, you are forcing others to subject to your religion. You make managers afraid to say anything in fear of lawsuits. You make coworkers feel uncomfortable. I work with one and she doesn't care about work if she can't pray. When you're at work, work comes first. She takes her breaks AND her prayer times at separate times. You expect EVERYBODY to revolve around you and your practices. I guess that's what happens when you only respect each other and don't give a damn about anybody else.

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ozgirl512 · 26-30, F

Yep.. Terrible... Just like some of the injunctions in the Bible... Thought shall not suffer a witch to live, have no other gods before me ... Shall I go on... They both have issues

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ozgirl512 · 26-30, F

@dunpender just the fact that you use the word savages is distressing ... Can you not see a subjective bias?... Both religions have the idiots, there is no arguing that... Just be objective, that's all I ask

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room101 · 51-55, M

Why is it that, whenever the topic of Islam and its barbaric practices comes up, apologists start talking about the barbarism of Christians during The Middle Ages and the so-called Islamic period of enlightenment?

The Middle Ages ended more than 500 years ago. And even under this dark period in its history, Europe gave us the legal systems that we all live by now and the principles of secularism which underpin our democracies.

Is it so difficult to understand that one cannot credibly compare what was done 500 years ago with what is happening now?

The Age of Reason (aka The Enlightenment) is considered to be between the years 1685 to 1815. This was a time when European politics, philosophy and science were radically reoriented and questioned. Traditional authorities no longer held sway. Instead, people embraced the notion that humanity could be improved through rational thought and change.

None of that has ever happened in Islam.

What we actually had was an Islamic invasion which resulted in Muslims taking ownership of many of the depositories of knowledge. This doesn’t preclude the fact that there were many great thinkers in Islam who were able to take this knowledge, and expand upon it and disseminate it. But that’s not Enlightenment because there was no change within Islam itself.

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room101 · 51-55, M

So bloody typical.........he posts a reply and then blocks me. Doesn't even understand that, once he blocks someone, they can't see his reply.

Isn't talking to oneself one of the definitions of madness?

https://similarworlds.com/5385229-IVe-Been-Blocked/834114-Youre-having-a-debate-with-someone-You-deeply

Sharon · F

@MrBrownstone If you're trying to engage room101 in intellectual debate you may as well give up. He'll ignore any evidence you provide. He even ignores his own arguments half the time.

Has he accused you of being me or one of his other opposers yet? That's another of his tricks. He also claimed I'd blocked him when I hadn't, although I did subsequently.

SW-User

@room101 fair enough, I've seen revisionists trying to claim the Enlightenment for Christianity and I'm glad you're not one of them

SW-User

In my long life, nobody has ever tried to force Islam on me. Just saying. I guess I'm lucky.

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room101 · 51-55, M

@SW-User then come to London (and many other cities in the UK and other parts of Europe). I routinely see stands outside my local library with a group of Muslims handing out leaflets etc.

Interestingly, in the last year, there has been a resurgence of Jehovah's Witnesses and Evangelists pounding the pavements.

dominoesgirl · 36-40, F

@room101 I'm not looking forward to when what you're going through with the Muslims makes it here to America. It is bad enough as it is, with rallies and protests, but they seem to have a bigger standing where you're at right now.

suzie1960 · 61-69, F

@dominoesgirl

All they talk about is their religion.

That sounds more like the born again christian zealots. I've never encounted that with Muslims. Even if I ask them about their beliefs they don't go on an on. attempting to convert me, they just answer my questions and give me the information I want.

SW-User

So can you tell me which verses actually say Muslims must kill non Muslims, and force their faith on others? And have you actually read it yourself, or have you just heard it from somewhere else? I have worked for a business owner by Muslims for five years and there has never been a time where they attempted to convert me or kill me for not following their faith.

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room101 · 51-55, M

@SW-User I've already had this conversation with another SW member.

https://similarworlds.com/6830410-I-Am-Enjoying-Being-A-Muslim/1059199-The-Prophet-Muhammad-peace-be-upon-him-said-Allah?rid=11951601

Here are the verses I gave her. She expanded those verses and gave them context.

[Quran 9:29]
Fight those who do not believe in God, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, nor abide by the religion of truth—from among those who received the Scripture—until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

This verse is a command to fight in battle the Byzantine Romans after the assassination of one of the Prophet’s ambassadors.

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[Quran 2:190-191]
And fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not commit aggression; God does not love the aggressors. And kill them wherever you overtake them, and expel them from where they had expelled you. Oppression is more serious than murder. But do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you there. If they fight you, then kill them. Such is the retribution of the disbelievers. But if they cease, then God is Forgiving and Merciful.

This verse commands Muslims to fight in battle pagans of Mecca after they expelled Muslims from their homes.

________________________________________

[Quran 47:4]
When you encounter those who disbelieve, strike at their necks. Then, when you have routed them, bind them firmly. Then, either release them by grace, or by ransom, until war lays down its burdens. Had God willed, He could have defeated them Himself, but He thus tests some of you by means of others. As for those who are killed in the way of God, He will not let their deeds go to waste.

This verse was revealed in context of war.

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[Quran 8:11-13]
He made drowsiness overcome you, as a security from Him. And He sent down upon you water from the sky, to cleanse you with it, and to rid you of Satan’s pollution, and to fortify your hearts, and to strengthen your foothold. Your Lord inspired the angels: “I am with you, so support those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. So strike above the necks, and strike off every fingertip of theirs.” That is because they opposed God and His Messenger. Whoever opposes God and His Messenger—God is severe in retribution.

This verse is in context of Battle of Badr.

________________________________________

The website you copied this verse from provided poor and misleading translation, here's the correct one:

[Quran 9:123]
O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who attack you, and let them find severity in you, and know that God is with the righteous.

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[Quran 48:29]
Muhammad is the Messenger of God. Those with him are stern against the disbelievers, yet compassionate amongst themselves. You see them kneeling, prostrating, seeking blessings from God and approval. Their marks are on their faces from the effects of prostration. Such is their description in the Torah, and their description in the Gospel: like a plant that sprouts, becomes strong, grows thick, and rests on its stem, impressing the farmers. Through them He enrages the disbelievers. God has promised those among them who believe and do good deeds forgiveness and a great reward.

This verse was revealed when the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was returning to Madinah when he concluded the Truce of Hudaiybiyah. It refers to the Muslims who did not in any way cowe away or abandoned their faith in Islam, no matter how much the Quraysh were hostile, and persecuted the Muslims.

________________________________________

[Quran 4:88-90]
What is the matter with you, divided into two factions regarding the hypocrites, when God Himself has overwhelmed them on account of what they did? Do you want to guide those whom God has led astray? Whomever God leads astray—you will never find for him a way. They would love to see you disbelieve, just as they disbelieve, so you would become equal. So do not befriend any of them, unless they emigrate in the way of God. If they turn away, seize them and execute them wherever you may find them; and do not take from among them allies or supporters. Except those who join people with whom you have a treaty, or those who come to you reluctant to fight you or fight their own people. Had God willed, He would have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. If they withdraw from you, and do not fight you, and offer you peace, then God assigns no excuse for you against them.

This verse clearly talks about the hypocrites who lived at the time of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

The point is, regardless of context, those verses are there. They exist. Pretending that they don't is naive at best. Furthermore, it's these verses (and many more like them) that have fuelled and justified the actions of Islamists for the last 1400 years.

SW-User

@room101 well of course context is important. My point is that there are no verses that say Muslims must rise and kill non Muslims for the simple fact that they aren't Muslims. As the original poster claimed.

room101 · 51-55, M

@SW-User Try explaining that to the millions of Mujahideen who have plagued this planet since Muhammad decided to spread his religion through conquest instead of discourse. And please, don't start comparing what Christians have done with what countless Muslims are doing. That comparison fails on two fronts. First, Christ did not use armies to spread his gospel. Muhammad did. Second, the colonialism perpetrated under the guise of Christianity ended hundreds of years ago. Islamic colonialism is happening as we speak.

Finally, what does this extract taken from 4:88-90 mean to you?

"So do not befriend any of them, unless they emigrate in the way of God. If they turn away, seize them and execute them wherever you may find them; and do not take from among them allies or supporters."

The devout Muslim that I was talking to about this tells us that it's about dealing with hypocrites. What I find hypocritical is the excuse given.

If they turn away, seize them and execute them wherever you may find them. If they turn away from Islam, kill them.

Seems pretty clear cut (pun intended) to me.

DeWayfarer · 61-69, M

Just like the Bible it's a matter of interpretation. There are Islams that denounce terrorism of any form just like the opposite with Christians that still believe an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. And no exceptions.

Please consider what happened in the middle ages with Christians. They where no better than these Islamic terrorists.

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Sharon · F

@DeWayfarer That's what I meant, it was intended as a rhetorical question. Islam is at the same stage of evolution as christianity was in 1439. Nearly 200 hundred years after that, the christian inquisition threatened Galileo with death for promoting heliocentricism.

DeWayfarer · 61-69, M

@Sharon Yes. That is also true. I referred to the crusades, and hundred year wars because many where against Islam itself. Joan of Arc being one of the more famous of them.

Sharon · F

@DeWayfarer The crusades were attempted genocide by the christians. In UK law, genocide is defined, inter alia, as attempting to eradicate a religious group.

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xmedleft · 51-55, M

You REALLY shoulda stayed awake in History class, really really.
As Islam grew in the Middle East certain elements of learning moved through the region on its tail, forms of learning that were simultaneously declining in Europe. It is only through the crusades and then the resultant re-opening of trade between Italy and the Middle East that those forms of learning returned to Europe. Several forms of sciences and medicines and mathematics only came back through that contact some time in the 1300s. Like Algebra... you know Al Gebar-Wa... @dunpender on your next time through this life make sure you go through it with your eyes open... oops that was a little too Hindu for you wasn't it?

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LoneKnight · M

Six types of Deception:

There are SIX DIFFERENT WAYS of deception that are permissible in Islam: 1) taqiyya, 2) kitman, 3) tawriya, 4) taysir, 5) darura, 6) muruna
•Taqiyya (Shia) or Muda’rat (Sunni): tactical deceit for the purposes of spreading Islam.
•Kitman: deceit by omission.
•Tawriya: deceit by ambiguity.
•Taysir: deceit through facilitation (not having to observe all the tenets of Sharia).
•Darura: deceit through necessity (to engage in something “Haram” or forbidden).
•Muruna: the temporary suspension of Sharia to make Muslim migrants appear “moderate.”

CopperCicada · M

I guess I keep coming back to how do I deal with Muslims in my own life.

Over the years I've worked with some pricks.

Then two of my best friends are Muslims. One I eat tacos and beer with at a taqueria every so often. He loves tacos. The other is a queer and sex trafficking activist.

It's easier to deal with Muslims re individuals than it is Islam some big thing.

room101 · 51-55, M

@CopperCicada I'm glad that you've met some cool Muslims and you're absolutely right, it is easier (and better) to look at individuals as opposed to institutions.

CopperCicada · M

@room101 on the other hand, there is a time and place to look at islam re an institution. in terms of geopolitics, terrorism, what have you. eating tacos isn't that time :)

room101 · 51-55, M

@CopperCicada Nah, it's likely to give you both indigestion 😂

suzie1960 · 61-69, F

You're confusing the Quran with the christian bible. It is the latter that instructs followers to kill non-believers, not the Quran. In fact, all the negative things you've just written about Islam actually apply far better to christianity. I've worked with christians who spent most of the working day trying to force their views on the rest of us. They were especially nasty to me when they learned I used to be a christian until I came to my senses.

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suzie1960 · 61-69, F

@dunpender Why? It's a pity the spread of christianity throughout Pagandom wasn't more strongly resisted though. :(

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room101 · 51-55, M

@dunpender "of those times"

And there's the HUGE difference.

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room101 · 51-55, M

@dunpender The examples that you've given of Northern Ireland, Bosnia and Kosovo, are all remnants of previous conflicts. Also the American Bible Belt Pastors that you mention are no different to the multitudes of radical Imams found all over the world TODAY. And that's the point, where Christianity has evolved, Islam as an overall religion has not.

I don't want to repeat myself on the same post so please look at what I said many weeks ago.

xmedleft · 51-55, M

Very 1st line; that is not what their holy book says. In fact every of Muhammad's teachings showed he hoped to convert non-believers, which is hard to do when they're dead.

room101 · 51-55, M

@xmedleft How does that reconcile with the following verse?

[Quran 47:4]
When you encounter those who disbelieve, strike at their necks. Then, when you have routed them, bind them firmly. Then, either release them by grace, or by ransom, until war lays down its burdens. Had God willed, He could have defeated them Himself, but He thus tests some of you by means of others. As for those who are killed in the way of God, He will not let their deeds go to waste.