Should everyone have a guaranteed income, whether they work or not?
Could universal basic income provide a solution to poverty and other challenges that come from economic inequality?
26-30, F
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SW-User
It was a theory proposed a long time ago, endorsed by Milton Friedman (although under a different name), and is now gaining steam due to the income inequality exposure.
The truth is that in 10-20 years, robots will be replacing several millions of jobs in the US alone. Whole industries will become automated. Lots of people would be out of work in a globalized economy that has no qualms moving remaining labor to countries that are willing to exploit their citizens for economic gain.
The ensuing competition for remaining jobs will have people cutting each other's throats for a handful of peanuts. Pretty much everyone but the rich will be worse off. You're looking at something akin to pre-revolution France. Decades of turmoil and chaos and death followed that.
Without a basic income, you'll be looking at economic collapse. And automation is just one facet of this whole debate. I haven't even addressed how the current debt crisis is going to exacerbate this or how the economy is dependent on constant spending in a near future where that will be almost impossible without some kind of minimum income
The truth is that in 10-20 years, robots will be replacing several millions of jobs in the US alone. Whole industries will become automated. Lots of people would be out of work in a globalized economy that has no qualms moving remaining labor to countries that are willing to exploit their citizens for economic gain.
The ensuing competition for remaining jobs will have people cutting each other's throats for a handful of peanuts. Pretty much everyone but the rich will be worse off. You're looking at something akin to pre-revolution France. Decades of turmoil and chaos and death followed that.
Without a basic income, you'll be looking at economic collapse. And automation is just one facet of this whole debate. I haven't even addressed how the current debt crisis is going to exacerbate this or how the economy is dependent on constant spending in a near future where that will be almost impossible without some kind of minimum income
tynamite · 31-35, M
@HalfCactus:
Without a basic income, you'll be looking at economic collapse.
SW-User
@tynamite: What you fail to realize is that economic growth has been consistently slowing down for more than a decade now. It's no coincidence that this coincides with increasing personal debt commitments that funnels more and more money to bankers rather than the economy. Job growth is paltry, labor force participation is down, and increasing automation and post-recession streamlining is only going to make things worse.
We can't make our economy grow with our population, and that's despite our population growth slowing down. Once we start mass-automating industries, everything will only get worse without having some kind of protection for the people.
We can't make our economy grow with our population, and that's despite our population growth slowing down. Once we start mass-automating industries, everything will only get worse without having some kind of protection for the people.
tynamite · 31-35, M
@HalfCactus: Economic growth has been consistently slowing not because the economy is bad, but we have reached enough technological advancement to the point where there are much less disruptive companies than there were 100 years ago. An economy can grow due to the following factors.
a) Trade
b) A government paying off its debts
c) A creation of jobs, especially high paid jobs
b) Disruptive companies
As the number of disruptive companies are decreasing compared to the past, you'll find that the economy will not grow as fast as it did in the past. An example is that digital cameras were disruptive to Kodak's analogue cameras. In the 90s the biggest camera company had hundreds of employees. Now the biggest camera companies, Snapchat and Instagram, have less than 20 employees each. Those companies are disruptive. As technology advances, we will reach a point where we can't advance technology any more, so the less disruptive companies are being created and operating, the slower the economy will grow.
What does the debt of the general public have to do with bankers getting richer? Banks are investment companies. They profit when people pay off their debts.
This is a good thing.
All the industries which can be automated have moved to third world countries like China, India, Bangadesh and Turkey where workers are paid low wages. It's funny how in those countries there's no unemployment benefits but there is that in countries where those menial jobs that pay a pittance don't exist.
a) Trade
b) A government paying off its debts
c) A creation of jobs, especially high paid jobs
b) Disruptive companies
As the number of disruptive companies are decreasing compared to the past, you'll find that the economy will not grow as fast as it did in the past. An example is that digital cameras were disruptive to Kodak's analogue cameras. In the 90s the biggest camera company had hundreds of employees. Now the biggest camera companies, Snapchat and Instagram, have less than 20 employees each. Those companies are disruptive. As technology advances, we will reach a point where we can't advance technology any more, so the less disruptive companies are being created and operating, the slower the economy will grow.
It's no coincidence that this coincides with increasing personal debt commitments that funnels more and more money to bankers rather than the economy.
What does the debt of the general public have to do with bankers getting richer? Banks are investment companies. They profit when people pay off their debts.
We can't make our economy grow with our population, and that's despite our population growth slowing down.
This is a good thing.
Once we start mass-automating industries, everything will only get worse without having some kind of protection for the people.
All the industries which can be automated have moved to third world countries like China, India, Bangadesh and Turkey where workers are paid low wages. It's funny how in those countries there's no unemployment benefits but there is that in countries where those menial jobs that pay a pittance don't exist.
SW-User
@tynamite: You do realize that automation is no longer limited to manufacturing, right? We're no longer teaching our machines to do simple tasks, we're teaching them to learn. They're developing a rudimentary AI.
We're going to have self-driving cars all over in the next 10 years which will replace truckers, transportation workers, and delivery drivers, to name a few.
We're going to have software around that time which will also replace a lot of skilled workers, including translators, accountants and financial workers, and paralegals, also to name a few
The restaurant industry will be one of the first to be largely automated. This is going to displace millions of workers as well.
This isn't sci-fi distant future stuff, this is happening now. The technology is being perfected as we speak. It won't be long after that it will be commercially viable. Economic and technology experts all over the world are predicting this to happen within 2 decades, with many estimates hovering between 10-15 years.
But besides that point, how do you think jobs are created?
We're going to have self-driving cars all over in the next 10 years which will replace truckers, transportation workers, and delivery drivers, to name a few.
We're going to have software around that time which will also replace a lot of skilled workers, including translators, accountants and financial workers, and paralegals, also to name a few
The restaurant industry will be one of the first to be largely automated. This is going to displace millions of workers as well.
This isn't sci-fi distant future stuff, this is happening now. The technology is being perfected as we speak. It won't be long after that it will be commercially viable. Economic and technology experts all over the world are predicting this to happen within 2 decades, with many estimates hovering between 10-15 years.
But besides that point, how do you think jobs are created?
tynamite · 31-35, M
@HalfCactus: Cars that can drive down roads unaided by humans which react to the environment well will NEVER happen. Translators will also not be replaced by machines too. Yes the restaurant industry will be automated if the minimum wage increases to $15 an hour like the protesters want.
Jobs are created when an employer decides to pay someone money for doing a task.
Jobs are created when an employer decides to pay someone money for doing a task.
SW-User
@tynamite: You are dangerously uninformed. Self-driving cars already exist and have been tested thousands of times on open roads. Google alone has had their self-driving cars log more than 2 million miles.
Germany has just legalized them, and several US states are in the process of doing so. They exist already. They are statistically far less likely to get in an accident than human drivers, and they don't need to be paid. You are living under a rock if you don't think they'll ever happen
Germany has just legalized them, and several US states are in the process of doing so. They exist already. They are statistically far less likely to get in an accident than human drivers, and they don't need to be paid. You are living under a rock if you don't think they'll ever happen
tynamite · 31-35, M
@HalfCactus: Would you trust a self driving car to drive you on a 10 mile journey unaided by a human? I wouldn't!