Ideas for punishment?
How should adults who spend their time thinking about "humiliating & embarrassing" punishments (also known as abuse) for children be punished?
22-25, F
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Montanaman · M
@HeteroDox no heart for comment. That's just fn' wrong. 😔 I'm glad I didn't see it.
SW-User
@HeteroDox It is disturbing. I would almost feel better that people who communicate these ideas do it openly because then these ideas can be challenged or ridiculed or the people can be helped for whatever mental illness they have. When it is done in private it becomes a lot more sinister. When its out in the open it reminds people that these ideas are out there and to be safe. It also alerts people about who we need to keep an eye on.
HannibalAteMeOut · 22-25, F
SW-User
@HeteroDox Yes potentially. Sorry but if them doing it out in the open prevents them from really doing it privately or even alerts the authorities to them then I would go with the lesser evil. I appreciate that may seem callous for someone like yourself. For situations like this we need to travel the path of the least damage. If we could not help you perhaps we can help some other child. If you feel there is an error in my thinking I am always ready to be corrected.
SW-User
@HannibalAteMeOut Yeah perhaps for some of them. Despite their monikers on an anonymous website this is the internet. No one is ever truly hidden. All they are doing is alerting the authorities to where they are.
HannibalAteMeOut · 22-25, F
Miram · 31-35, F
@SW-User
The authorities do not allocate resources for every online case, especially those sexualizing children in the form of written pornography. There isn't enough means to do so. They have to focus on tiny percentage and it's usually those they have enough proof to believe they can eventually take to court.
This is a public responsibility. The site is better off booting them than waiting and watching. They can store the information for future references.
I know about at least two pedophiles who have openly confessed of their crimes being investigated here for years, and no gains achieved.
The authorities do not allocate resources for every online case, especially those sexualizing children in the form of written pornography. There isn't enough means to do so. They have to focus on tiny percentage and it's usually those they have enough proof to believe they can eventually take to court.
This is a public responsibility. The site is better off booting them than waiting and watching. They can store the information for future references.
I know about at least two pedophiles who have openly confessed of their crimes being investigated here for years, and no gains achieved.
SW-User
@Miram This is the online world the domain of fantasists and make believe. Just because someone confessed their crimes online does not actually mean that these crimes actually took place.
You are right evidence of crimes is needed before cases end up in court and convictions are made, it is exactly the way it should be in any society that values freedom and fairness. Could this be why the pedophiles you mention have not ended up in jail? How do you know these people have not been investigated? Saying that I have no idea of whom you speak so cannot comment on it without knowing the details.
If you are forcing people to hide what they are how can this evidence be collected? Surely then it is even more difficult for under resourced law enforcement to identify these people when they are forced to go under cover? Like any crime the more witness there are the easier it is to get a conviction.
With that said booting them off and gathering evidence sounds like a contradictory statement to me. You want it to be a public responsibility? Then give the public the ability to be able to gather evidence, to be able to contact the admin who have a duty of responsibility to contact law enforcement. Instead of brushing it under the carpet so people do not have to think of or be aware of the dangers. How can you gather evidence from someone that is not here?
I am open to having my mind changed if you can suggest a better way protecting everyone.
You are right evidence of crimes is needed before cases end up in court and convictions are made, it is exactly the way it should be in any society that values freedom and fairness. Could this be why the pedophiles you mention have not ended up in jail? How do you know these people have not been investigated? Saying that I have no idea of whom you speak so cannot comment on it without knowing the details.
If you are forcing people to hide what they are how can this evidence be collected? Surely then it is even more difficult for under resourced law enforcement to identify these people when they are forced to go under cover? Like any crime the more witness there are the easier it is to get a conviction.
With that said booting them off and gathering evidence sounds like a contradictory statement to me. You want it to be a public responsibility? Then give the public the ability to be able to gather evidence, to be able to contact the admin who have a duty of responsibility to contact law enforcement. Instead of brushing it under the carpet so people do not have to think of or be aware of the dangers. How can you gather evidence from someone that is not here?
I am open to having my mind changed if you can suggest a better way protecting everyone.
Miram · 31-35, F
@SW-User
They shouldn't have to commit a crime in order to be booted out is my point. Just sexualizing children and producing written pornography should be enough. And was recently included in the TOS .
Letting them on here after the investigation is counter-productive. After the evidence is gathered they should be booted out.
Even if you want this place to be used as a trap for pedoes, the sort of evidence that you'd need for conviction in most countries would involve a minor account interacting with them in PM sexually.
Which is not possible since minor accounts cannot contact these adults.
I didn't say they were not investigated, I said they were because I was the one who contacted the authorities and got them involved. I was told that even getting a warrant to search their property, strictly based on their confession here isn't possible. It took months to check out on their kids who are now adults by the way.
There is no freedom nor fairness in going around in the internet talking about having sex with children
You already have those abilities. Just that the evidence you can access is only good for booting them out.
You should be able to contact law enforcement in person if you actually believe you have enough information. There is a list of links provided by the admins for members. It is not just up to the 2 admins.
And I quote them
Just because someone confessed their crimes online does not actually mean that these crimes actually took place.
If you are forcing people to hide what they are how can this evidence be collected?...booting them off and gathering evidence sounds like a contradictory statement to me
They shouldn't have to commit a crime in order to be booted out is my point. Just sexualizing children and producing written pornography should be enough. And was recently included in the TOS .
Letting them on here after the investigation is counter-productive. After the evidence is gathered they should be booted out.
Even if you want this place to be used as a trap for pedoes, the sort of evidence that you'd need for conviction in most countries would involve a minor account interacting with them in PM sexually.
Which is not possible since minor accounts cannot contact these adults.
How do you know these people have not been investigated?
I didn't say they were not investigated, I said they were because I was the one who contacted the authorities and got them involved. I was told that even getting a warrant to search their property, strictly based on their confession here isn't possible. It took months to check out on their kids who are now adults by the way.
it is exactly the way it should be in any society that values freedom and fairness.
There is no freedom nor fairness in going around in the internet talking about having sex with children
You want it to be a public responsibility? Then give the public the ability to be able to gather evidence, to be able to contact the admin who have a duty of responsibility to contact law enforcement.
You already have those abilities. Just that the evidence you can access is only good for booting them out.
You should be able to contact law enforcement in person if you actually believe you have enough information. There is a list of links provided by the admins for members. It is not just up to the 2 admins.
And I quote them
Please don't wait for us to investigate and report the case. If you have already evidence that this person is exploiting a child, contact your local law enforcement immediately, with all the information you can gather of this user, such as Address, Bank Account information, Phone number, etc...
When users report cases about exploiting a child to us, we may keep this account active on Similar Worlds so we continue to have up-to-date/live data about this user, even though we may proceed with some actions such as limiting who this user may contact or message.
Please note that us suspending the user will NOT safe-guard that this user can't return with another account, even if we block their IP address or device. It will also NOT prevent the user from harming victims in real-life.
As we are not law enforcement, we are limited as to what actions we can actually take towards an non-convicted suspect of crime.
We will only report to law enforcement if we have sufficient evidence that the suspect is attempting to meet or hurt a minor, or that the suspect has exchanged explicit materials with a minor. We will therefore proceed with an action once we have the legal go-ahead.
We also encourage you to
https://similarworlds.com/help/4-What-do-I-do-if-I-have-evidence-of-a-child-being
When users report cases about exploiting a child to us, we may keep this account active on Similar Worlds so we continue to have up-to-date/live data about this user, even though we may proceed with some actions such as limiting who this user may contact or message.
Please note that us suspending the user will NOT safe-guard that this user can't return with another account, even if we block their IP address or device. It will also NOT prevent the user from harming victims in real-life.
As we are not law enforcement, we are limited as to what actions we can actually take towards an non-convicted suspect of crime.
We will only report to law enforcement if we have sufficient evidence that the suspect is attempting to meet or hurt a minor, or that the suspect has exchanged explicit materials with a minor. We will therefore proceed with an action once we have the legal go-ahead.
We also encourage you to
https://similarworlds.com/help/4-What-do-I-do-if-I-have-evidence-of-a-child-being
SW-User
I didn't say they were not investigated, I said they were because I was the one who contacted the authorities and got them involved. I was told that even getting a warrant to search their property, strictly based on their confession here isn't possible. It took months to check out on their kids who are now adults by the way.
how would you have been able to alert the authorities if everything was happening in private messages? The very fact these people were checked on was a win. It would not have happened otherwise and you done a good thing.
They shouldn't have to commit a crime in order to be booted out is my point. Just sexualizing children and producing written pornography should be enough.
It is a crime in many places of the world.
Which is not possible since minor accounts cannot contact these adults.
Whats to stop these people making a minor account?
There is no freedom nor fairness in going around in the internet talking about having sex with children
It is what the law is for. Time would be better spent on changing the law in that case.
You should be able to contact law enforcement in person if you actually believe you have enough information. There is a list of links provided by the admins for members. It is not just up to the 2 admins.
I never once said it was only up to the admins but the admins have a duty of care to report these things.
I do take some of your points on board and appreciate the time that you have taken to provide me with your opinion.
Miram · 31-35, F
@SW-User I take note of yours too.
I had access to private messages because they were shared with me, some of which took place back on EP.
And some of those I reported were shown to me by an SWer in the main. One of those who confessed to crimes is still allowed in this website after the investigation.
Perhaps there is another investigation going on that I am not aware of, the admins hinted at that and told me not to share usernames in public. To not interfere ..etc.
I agree.
It will take time for those laws to be created if they will at all.
If I remember correctly, there is a filter for adult content when you're a minor. If an adult is using a minor account to prey on children, they may not post publicly pedophilic things for us all to report and notify the admins in order to investigate their private message interaction.
And there are a few who used VPNs. Which makes it difficult to detect similarities other than the linguistic patterns.
Of course there is always the problem of minors using adult profiles. I discussed this previously with the admins, and I am sad to say when that happens it helps these individuals get away with crime.
Yes, I do think the laws should be changed. It's the only way to get to the root of the problem.
In the US, there has been only one case where prosecutors were capable of using written pornography to proceed on charges, in NY I think. And that's because he was an ex convict and the descriptions were so horribly detailed and included violence.
how would you have been able to alert the authorities if everything was happening in private messages? The very fact these people were checked on was a win. It would not have happened otherwise and you done a good thing.
I had access to private messages because they were shared with me, some of which took place back on EP.
And some of those I reported were shown to me by an SWer in the main. One of those who confessed to crimes is still allowed in this website after the investigation.
Perhaps there is another investigation going on that I am not aware of, the admins hinted at that and told me not to share usernames in public. To not interfere ..etc.
I never once said it was only up to the admins but the admins have a duty of care to report these things.
I agree.
It will take time for those laws to be created if they will at all.
Whats to stop these people making a minor account?
If I remember correctly, there is a filter for adult content when you're a minor. If an adult is using a minor account to prey on children, they may not post publicly pedophilic things for us all to report and notify the admins in order to investigate their private message interaction.
And there are a few who used VPNs. Which makes it difficult to detect similarities other than the linguistic patterns.
Of course there is always the problem of minors using adult profiles. I discussed this previously with the admins, and I am sad to say when that happens it helps these individuals get away with crime.
Yes, I do think the laws should be changed. It's the only way to get to the root of the problem.
In the US, there has been only one case where prosecutors were capable of using written pornography to proceed on charges, in NY I think. And that's because he was an ex convict and the descriptions were so horribly detailed and included violence.
SW-User
@Miram The only thing for sure is that there is no silver bullet that is going to fix all these issues in one go