Sure is hard to debate or discuss evolution when people make the argument : "but the bible says!"

@Churchy

It's fine for them to believe in it, sure. It just becomes a problem when they want to debate based on faith rather than facts

@UnparalleledMonster: in order to have a debate, you have to understand their side of the argument. It goes both ways. If you do not believe in their source of the evidence, then you have already canceled out any room left for a debate.

@MartinTheFirst:

Not at all. But what they have to be able to do is to point to actual real world evidence that supports what is said in the bible.

@UnparalleledMonster: Yes what i said is true, if you do not understand or have knowledge in their source of evidence, nor if you believe in their source of the evidence, then that is the same as if they dont believe in science.

@MartinTheFirst:

Well as a matter of fact, i DO have knowledge and understanding of their beliefs. Because i checked it out, read the bible and did plenty of thinking and discussing.
And what i found was not convincing. So if they want to debate using the bible then it has to be convincing which means it has to be supported by hard evidence.

@UnparalleledMonster: Hard evidence won't be found. There's a reason why God calls it "faith", if you do not want to believe, you will never believe and therefore never know the truth. It's a question about humbleness. There is evidence and lots of it, but not the kind of evidence you seek for.

@MartinTheFirst:

lol i'm glad you've recognized the entire point of this thread: You can't debate facts with faith.

But you're so mistaken that i don't want to believe. What a comfort it would be to know that there is something after this life. That i'd see my loved ones again. That there is an almighty force that cares about me. Who WOULDN'T want to believe?
But all the "evidence" for such a thing i have found fundamentally uncompelling.

@UnparalleledMonster: Faith and facts are not related in the way you are referring to. Facts is what is true. A fact is somrthing that simply is. A faith is your understanding of things that youve learned along the way, compiling all of the facts and other things youve gathered. Faith is a belief that you are correct. When you believe that something is a fact, you play on faith, you dont truly know if its a fact or not, but you believe it is because everything youve gathered up until thay point says so. So now tell me that you cant debate facts with faith.

@MartinTheFirst:

That's a pretty liberal definition of faith. Faith is believe without, or in spite of, evidence.
You can believe you are correct because you have been convinced by the evidence but you have to have faith that you are correct when the evidence doesn't support you.

And of course by evidence i do mean evidence that can be studied by science (the most consistent, effective and accurate tool we've developed for understanding out world) and not what some people said in their unverifiable creation story

@UnparalleledMonster: And youre wrong yet again. Faith does not mean that you do not have evidence, it simply means that you accept that you cant know it for a fact. Even if you have strong evidence for it, some faith may still be required. You have to think outside of your box...

@MartinTheFirst:

Well if we can't agree on the meaning of terms then this avenue of discussion can go no further.