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Sicarium · 46-50, M
There's two definitions of racism floating around. The first, the traditional definition, says that discrimination based on a race (skin color, primarily) is racism. The second, an identitarian redefinition, is that racism is prejudice plus power.
If someone is an identitarian, they're not going to defend white people from racism because they don't consider it racist under the assumption that white people are in power in that situation. These are the ones who say black people, or whatever other minority, can't be racist.
If someone is an identitarian, they're not going to defend white people from racism because they don't consider it racist under the assumption that white people are in power in that situation. These are the ones who say black people, or whatever other minority, can't be racist.
Faust76 · 46-50, M
@Sicarium Racism was a term originally coined to describe the Nazi racial ideology, as such it's original meaning is very indelibly tied to the idea of Aryan master race. The strange newspeak that "racial discrimination" equals racism (still an ideology as indicated by -ism) is a later development, and it's disingenuous to claim exactly opposite (Usually, to justify some kind of white supremacist position
Regardless it's unnecessary to bring word definition into this, as people weren't asked whether they considered an (inequal) statement racist. If people saw an 500 lb gorilla beating on a man, they'd be more likely to come to aid than if they saw the man beating on a 500 lb gorilla. (Assuming, they could do it safely of course!). Rooting for the underdog is pretty healthy social behavior, which one wishes there was more of. But then, the statements weren't even equal, where one could be considered an awkward statement of fact and another flat out racial slur.
Regardless it's unnecessary to bring word definition into this, as people weren't asked whether they considered an (inequal) statement racist. If people saw an 500 lb gorilla beating on a man, they'd be more likely to come to aid than if they saw the man beating on a 500 lb gorilla. (Assuming, they could do it safely of course!). Rooting for the underdog is pretty healthy social behavior, which one wishes there was more of. But then, the statements weren't even equal, where one could be considered an awkward statement of fact and another flat out racial slur.
Sicarium · 46-50, M
@Faust76 If two people are working off of two different definitions, of course there's going to be a disconnect. Word definition is the core of that disconnect. Not adressing that disconnect only sows confusion. Secondly, Nazis and White Supramecists are identitarians, so not sure where you're going with that or why you somehow thought it was a valid rebuttal of my comment. Unless it was just a misdirect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice_plus_power
I can point you to a few hundred videos on YouTube of identitarians putting that into practice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice_plus_power
I can point you to a few hundred videos on YouTube of identitarians putting that into practice.
Faust76 · 46-50, M
@Sicarium "racist: 1932 as a noun, 1938 as an adjective, from race (n.2); racism is first attested 1936 (from French racisme , 1935), originally in the context of Nazi theories." Online Etymology Dictionary, 2010 Douglas Harper.
The term "racism" has distinct origins in Nazi ideology of Aryan master-race. It was originally "identarian". People claiming that's the "new" definition almost invariably do so to support racism against blacks, not to condemn all types of discrimination. "Racial discrimination" is the word you're looking for, uh, discrimination that's based on race.
But anyway, this is just repeating what I said above... And btw I'm not denying both are bad, that's why it's called discrimination, but it's the 500 lb gorilla vs. man.
The term "racism" has distinct origins in Nazi ideology of Aryan master-race. It was originally "identarian". People claiming that's the "new" definition almost invariably do so to support racism against blacks, not to condemn all types of discrimination. "Racial discrimination" is the word you're looking for, uh, discrimination that's based on race.
But anyway, this is just repeating what I said above... And btw I'm not denying both are bad, that's why it's called discrimination, but it's the 500 lb gorilla vs. man.
Faust76 · 46-50, M
@Sicarium You wrote "The first, the traditional definition, says that discrimination based on a race"
I'm disputing it's really the traditional, or "first" definition. Granted you didn't say all the stuff I'm addressing, but I'm not going to answer to everybody who claims that racism is okay because some blacks don't like whites. Your response just was the first one I saw claiming that institutional (identarian) racism ideology is a new, non-traditional definition.
If we agree that both are examples of racial discrimination, and while both are bad, people who identify as black are distinct minority on SW, so people jumping to their defense would be preferable, then we have no quarrel though. (Although according to Darkcosmos data, even with the biased wording it seems both statements were actually equally opposed anyway...)
I'm disputing it's really the traditional, or "first" definition. Granted you didn't say all the stuff I'm addressing, but I'm not going to answer to everybody who claims that racism is okay because some blacks don't like whites. Your response just was the first one I saw claiming that institutional (identarian) racism ideology is a new, non-traditional definition.
If we agree that both are examples of racial discrimination, and while both are bad, people who identify as black are distinct minority on SW, so people jumping to their defense would be preferable, then we have no quarrel though. (Although according to Darkcosmos data, even with the biased wording it seems both statements were actually equally opposed anyway...)