"White Privilege" is BULLSHIT. Change my mind.

@kate21 The one that applied first. The entire idea of white privilege is bs. I can name a lot of privileges minorities have over me but none that I have over them thanks to affirmative action.

@kate21 If an person gets a perfect score on his SAT and a minority scores 50 points lower, why is it that the minority will be chosen over that person who doesn't happen to be a minority? I call that racism.

@JohnTaylor and i think that doesn't really happen

@JohnTaylor and if the applications arrive in the mail at the same time?

@kate21 It does happen. It isn't a matter if you believe it or not. OK so if they both arrive at the same time and the guy just so happens to pick the white person over the black person it's inherently racist? It's automatically due to the person being racist? How can you possibly even hope to prove something like that? The answer is you can't unless the person explicitly says that was the reason.

@JohnTaylor As I’m sure you’re aware, blacks were systematically enslaved in this country for a couple hundred years and were forbidden to learn how to read and write, then they suffered another hundred years of de facto slavery through things like sharecropping, Jim Crow, and de jure segregation. They were unable to get good education, so they were unable to get good jobs, so they were unable to properly provide for their families, and they were unable to help their kids with school (because they didn’t get good education themselves), etc. It was a vicious cycle. As a result, even today in the US blacks on average make less money than whites, they have a higher poverty rate, and they generally don’t do as well in school. A college then may take a black student with somewhat lower test scores as opposed to a white student with somewhat higher test scores for two reasons: 1. Diversity. If the vast majority of colleges didn’t do affirmative action, then the vast majority of their student bodies would be white. Colleges would be missing out on different cultures (especially black culture) and all the experiences that come with interacting with people of different cultures. Maybe you don’t give a shit about diversity, but our government has frequently (not always) decided that it is a legitimate value worth pursuing. 2. Our government has a responsibility to provide opportunities for each of its communities, especially when it historically did a lot to harm a certain community. If not for affirmative action, being born into the black community would mean you have much less opportunity in life, as you would be much more likely to continue along that vicious cycle I outlined above that started with slavery that was based on race. Now sure, you didn’t enslave any black people yourself, but you still inherited the benefits that your ancestors reaped from systematically oppressing blacks. It’s sort of like you didn’t steal, but you inherited stolen goods. That’s why it’s fair for colleges and businesses to pass you over for a black person because they used race as a deciding factor.

@JP1119 Yes I went to school I learned about those things just as everyone else did. Historically people I'm general were not treated well it's not something that was limited to just blacks. Those people who you all slap the one big category of white on: Italians, Polish, Germans, Italians, Irish. ALL experience discrimination. Guess what?! They rose above it! Just like I know black people can too. I'm not racist I want to see everyone do well and have equal opportunity. Affirmative action might help minorities but it's also a major middle finger to those who worked hard but just so didn't happen to be a minority. To be honest with you I think diversity is over rated. Yes diversity is important but it's not more important than people who might be more qualified or might be more deserving. That goes for everyone. I believe in equal opportunity not equal outcome that is all.


Your last comment was incredibly ignorant. Yes I'm "white" but none of my ancestors were ever slave owners. My ancestors were majority Irish who were also slaves! The Irish were treated like absolute shit but you won't find that in any text book they hand you in school. So no I'm not benefitting from anything any of my ancestors did. Theres not many people alive today who share ansestory with anyone who was a slave owner.

@JohnTaylor I'll buy that your ancestors were treated like shit, but they were not "slaves" in the same sense that black Americans were slaves. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/us/irish-slaves-myth.html

If you're for equal opportunity, then you should be for affirmative action. It doesn't mean picking people that are poorly qualified, it just means picking people who are equally deserving who scored a little bit lower but came from a background that afforded them less opportunity to score highly.

@JP1119 Affirmative action is not equal opportunity. I know plenty of blacks who are better situated than whites I know and have know yet they still benefit from affirmative action. I know that isn't the same everywhere but that's exactly the point. The bar should be the same for everyone regardless of race. That is true equality. With affirmative action you are lowering the bar for some people while keeping it the same or even sometimes raising it for other people. That's not right now.matter how you look at it. I don't care what your background is.

@JP1119 Rather than just going off what a NY Times article is telling you why not do some actual research of your own and look into it? I suggest you read the two books titled "They were white and they were slaves" and "White Cargo"

@JP1119 I'm not here to belittle or make light of the hardships that blacks have gone through and are still going through. All I'm saying is that I'm no better situated than most people in today's society. Blacks and whites instead of pointing fingers at each other and putting labels on each other should be working together.

@JohnTaylor The New York Times article doesn't count as research? What makes those books more valid than the article I cited? I Googled "irish were treated as badly as blacks" and also found articles from Snopes, the Christian Science Monitor, Wikipedia, and Huffington Post all saying that sure, the Irish were treated badly, but not like black American slaves.

@JP1119 Again you've done no real research. Reading a few articles is not a substitute for sitting down and actually looking at things yourself and forming your own conclusion. The books are far more detailed and site more historical evidence.

@JP1119 I'm again not here to argue that the Irish were treated as badly or worse than Blacks historically. I'm trying to convey to you that not all white people are historically oppressors and a lot of them have been oppressed themselves. ALL RACES have been oppressed by others at one point in time. My ancestors were not slave owners same goes for a majority of the white people living in America today. That is my point.

@JohnTaylor Just because your ancestors didn't actually own slaves doesn't mean they didn't benefit economically from slavery. Basically, the United States is a superpower today primarily because of slave labor. http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/06/12/%E2%80%9Cmy-family-never-owned-any-slaves%E2%80%9D/

@JP1119 Ok I'm done here. I honestly don't know what you want me to say. Do you want me to feel guilty? Shame? It's not going to happen. I'm me not my ancestors PERIOD. Anything that I have now is because I WORKED FOR IT.

@JohnTaylor I don't care what you feel. My point is, we [i]do[/i] owe blacks for our prosperity. Affirmative action [i]is[/i] good and just. You [i]are[/i] lucky to have been born a white American, white privilege [i]is[/i] real. [quote]Anything that I have now is because I WORKED FOR IT.[/quote] Did you even read that article I cited in my last comment? Did you even skim it? Then you would know that that (the above quote from you) is ignorant [i]bullshit[/i].

@JP1119 I don't owe anyone anything. Affirmative action is not just as I said before what is just is keeping the bar at the same level for everyone not raising it or lowering it based on what a person's skin color is. That's racist and unjust inherently. That's not giving someone what they actually deserve that's giving someone what we think they deserve based on what their skin tone is.

If I'm to take what you are saying seriously then blacks would also be privileged now to be living in America. Am I wrong? Because blacks today were never slaves themselves yet here they are benefitting from their ancestors.

@JohnTaylor Mmmm, not really. Because the US was built into a superpower at the [i]expense[/i] of their ancestors, which led them to be born disadvantaged compared to white Americans whose ancestors at least benefited from the exploitation of the blacks' ancestors. Basically, blacks footed the bill for America's superpower status, and they're still paying for it. Affirmative action is a (probably pretty small) part of what's ameliorating the debt they are owed.

@JP1119 Agreed to disagree.