I've just heard about the "incel" movement on the radio.

@DeWayfarer okay good...do you know much about them. NPR made it out to be a movement of violence. I'm hoping it's more of a movement to belong to something

@Notanymore The definition is in the words. Involunteery celibacy. Nothing more. Not violent involunteery celibacy. Just because NPR chose to shorten the acronym doesn't make it right.

Okay....but I don't believe that the issue is completely involuntary. I'm looking for a way to help some of these guys figure out that nice guys don't really finish last.

@Notanymore I absolutely do not understand the need to influence people that have no desires to be so influenced. Especially when it's harmless.

You would be far better off to assume they do not want your "help". That is most possibly why some have turned violent.

Others attempting to interfere in their lives usually does not end up very well.

I understand that....it just seems like these people are unhappy.....and they don't have to be....but I'll consider what you said

@Notanymore You can practice on me.

Okay.....are you really having issues that you want help with?

@Notanymore No, I said you can practice. I'll role-play.

Okay cool.....the basis I think would be to first understand a number of things.....nice guys don't finish last. Not all women or girls are the same, they don't want the same things and they definitely don't have the same "type". Many things about yourself that you aren't happy with are easily remedial. Pushups are free and solve more problems than you'd think. Your own standards and your concern of image have more affect on your success finding affection. Good looking wealthy men will be more successful with women, and even they strike out. If you don't make yourself attractive by the person that you and the things you do, women won't be attracted.

@Notanymore All throughout my teen years I was told I was a 'great guy', would make some girl very lucky someday, and other similar compliments. However, I got no dates, in spite of being nice, treating girls better than the Chads that they dated, and doing what I thought was 'right'. I continued down that path because I felt it was the right thing to do, that's how I was taught, and that's where the previous positive reinforcement came from. Then how come in spite of doing everything 'right' and being 'a great guy', etc.as was told to me by girls, that I can't get a date? Why do the more attractive and jerky Chads get the women and noone approaches me? How can I be doing all the right things and not having any success?

Any girl especially the more attractive and approachable she is will have dozens of guys doing things for her and being nice to her. For whatever reason she'll have a list of guys that are willing to carry her books (or anything else). But we as people aren't attracted to what someone does for us. We're attracted to what they are. Does Chad play sports? Does Chad play the guitar? Does Chad have a passion for his life? Girls and women love a man with passion for something.....and that's way more attractive than doing favors for her.

Also, she's called you a great guy and she says that she wants to be your friend....and now you're upset with her? If you can't be her friend, how can you be her partner? You don't have to be a stepping stone to be there for her, and you may be pleasantly amazed at how good of a friend she is when you aren't always chasing a romantic relationship. Give her this chance

@Notanymore You pointed out 'pushups are free' which indicates that it's all about the physical looks more than the personality. This is exactly my point. It doesn't matter if someone has a great personality as I've been led to believe that I have. What the truth is, is that I've been [i]lied[/i] to all these years by Stacys telling me that I was good for girls. I've been lied to by girls and now by women all my life! They all say the same thing but never the truth - "You're not handsome/rich enough for me". If all it took was a few pushups and some deodorant and a shower, do you think I'd have this problem still? It's people like you, the success stories who get women all the time that think it's so simple to fix! "Dude, just be yourself" "Dude, just dress nice" "Dude, just shower and be presentable" - what if I do all that and [i]still[/i] nothing happens? It's a hard lesson to learn but men and women are all wired to be attracted to the physical and I don't have money for cosmetic surgery. No matter what, my personality doesn't matter, unlike what everyone says to my face and online.

Sorry friend.... but let's not call me successful in general, I'm a slightly overweight, not very attractive and currently broke guy spending his Friday night just like you are. Also I'm going through a divorce because my ex had too many boyfriends to keep a husband around. However none of those things can be blamed on women in general. And yes I said pushups are free (they really are) and they're for you.....not your Stacy. In fact, if your Stacy has caused you this much pain.... maybe you should make friends with Jennifer or or Jackie or any other girl who respects you.

But I digress.....yes! If you want to get the girl....it helps to be presentable. (Please take a shower regularly). You want a woman who will make you a better you right? Why not help her out and be the best you you can be? Like I said even those lucky guys.....they strike out too....

@Notanymore However, you succeeded at one point. I haven't - hence, the 'involuntary celibate', in case you have forgotten. You got some. I haven't. When you haven't gotten any in decades no matter what you have tried, then maybe you can begin to understand what it feels like. You at one point were accepted, loved. I've never had that kind of moment. I've always struggled. I've always questioned. And I don't appreciate your belittling my situation with a dismissive wave of your currently married hand by saying all we need to do is be more presentable. Whatever happened to 'Be yourself'? Just bullshit to keep women to yourself? Even if I be a better version of myself it's not good enough. How far does one have to go? How far does one have to change and become less of who they are in order to achieve a date, or even a night with a woman?

([i]Note: 'Chad' and 'Stacy' are Incel slang for the guy who gets the girl and the gotten girl, respectively[/i])

@SW-User hey there mech. sorry about that period of silence..... sleep was necessary, and would not be delayed.

I don't think you know how similar you and I are and that's understandable. You've been done pretty wrong in the past and that really hurts! But obviously you're unhappy! Unhappy enough to go to extremes. How about trying?.... I'm going to offer you a 100% money back guarantee of success. All for the low price of nothing, I can promise that if you do some different for once, you'll have different results.

I want to do this, to help you! And in part help humanity, because I've been so close to feeling as defeated as yourself! What can it hurt?

Today however is mother's day, it's time to go honor the women in our lives that have given so much as to be a mother. I'm sorry if you don't have your mother still, or if circumstances have estranged you from her.....but surely you can see the beauty, and the sacrifice that many women have made just to be mom!

I'd be happy to continue, and hopefully help you gain a little hope. The choices are always yours to make.

@Notanymore Oh, no, I was still role-playing. 😋 Though I can empathize with the feeling that these men have. I hope you, and others, can see what they're talking about. I would [b][i][u]never[/u][/i][/b] condone or instigate violence against women because I couldn't get a date. The problem is with me, obviously. But for those who take the messages they're given to heart - they're confused and hurting.