Do you believe in the doctrine and steps of Alcoholics Anonymous? Are you powerless?

@Oster1 I’m glad it helps.

@Oster1 in fact, it hasn't, statistical data shows otherwise. AA was rated as the 48th most successful program. They have a high drop out rate and few people actually recover. I believe in evidence based treatment, not spirituality woo.

@basilfawlty89 Respectfully, I have to disagree. I have seen otherwise.

Whether it is spiritual based or not, the outcome has helped millions of people.

What are your concerns, if even a few were helped? We all are different and I will praise any program that has any success.😊

@Oster1 because most people are forced into AA and the 12 steps are pushed on people. There are far more effective ways of treating alcoholism. Just like a believe that depression requires the right therapy, do does addiction.

@Oster1
I agree with you, i attended meetings for many years and saw large numbers of men and women successfully stop drinking with the help of AA after failing in other rehab programs.

@basilfawlty89 Fun fact, the founder wanted paychedelics to be a key part of the program before it got railroaded into a quasi-religion.

@basilfawlty89 You cannot possibly find that AA is destructive. I truly believe that perhaps you are more offended by the spiritual nature of the program than the results. We may just have a difference in agreement.

It’s OK, I just belive in that , if it is helping someone, it’s a valid program.

Surely, we can try to understand each other.😊

@basilfawlty89 Were you forced by the court system to attend meetings? I got a DUI many years ago and one of the terms were attending a certain amount of meetings. That’s why I’m asking without interjecting, like usual.

@Oster1 I never said it was destructive, I said it was ineffective. Sure it's helped for some, built most alcoholics quit without AA and there are more effective treatments.

Also AA only lets you in once you're completely clean. Severe alcoholics require medical intervention to prevent delirium tremens which you can die from, but AA eschews any form of medication.

@basilfawlty89 This is why there are other programs for different people and circumstances. It’s all good as long as someone is being helped.😊

@Oster1 He's kinda right. Thw sucess rate isn't very good statistically and the few it does help tend to spend their entire lives just as alone and centered around the program. Sure it truely helps a few but that isn't a good metric of success. Cold turkey helps "some" too.
Most you do see remain abstinent from their vice end up being controlled by the "program" and left powerless and without choicw by the "program". The vast majority remain stuck for life as an addict just one that isn't getting high but still at the rock bottom that brought them there. It is a "give up ane surrender" based program as opposed to grow and move on based program. Some need that, but many, if not most aren't served by that approach and are actually harmed by it being the one size fits all only option.

@basilfawlty89 This is absolutely 💯 percent wrong.. in all my time in the program no drunk person walking into a meeting has ever been turned away, shunned, ignored or told they couldn't be there.. and they were always encouraged to stay and come back.. always
That's simply wrong, who ever made that claim is lying

@MethDozer I truly think we all are kind of right. I just depends on the program that is best suited for them!

Even your comment about psychedelic drugs is now becoming a very valid treatment in small does to literally re-wire the brains pleasure sectors.😊

@Oster1 AA and NA are just sorta hot button because they attwmpt to have a monopoly on treatment and are hostile to other forms of it as a principle and grossely exagerate their actual success in order to advertise they are "the way".

I can try to understand faults that some may have and want anyone who needs help, to find it in any program, they have eventual success with. That’s all!😊@MethDozer