Is planned parenthood evil? Why?

(psssst! You're supposed to tell me that it hasn't been proven, that is isn't wrong, and all that stupid shit.)

Lol noooo I understand all sides of debate. A bundle of cells has no value of love and attachment. But when there is a heartbeat... then it's debatable. Of course intentional abortions are "evil" but when the body does it on its own... is not the body evil? If all life is so precious, then killing spiders is murder right? Lol

@Starkizzed21: Lets' see...no, not all life is precious. Otherwise you'll have to accept Hitler as your roomie.

As for bundle of cells...why are turtle eggs (a bundle of cells in a shell) declared protected species, when babies with beating hearts (happens at 21 days) are not?
Let's see...maybe because turtle eggs are understood to contain everything needed for a new turtle, and well, babies with beating hearts are just a blob of tissue, a lump of random cells.

Do you see ANY contradiction here?

But hitler was someone's beloved baby. I don't think they ever dreamed he'd turn out like that....

As for the body aborting its own, trust me, if you weren't feeling inconvenienced by that clump of cells in your uterus, you would be pretty happy if a doctor could stop your body from self-aborting. Yes?

Well, then why would you even dream of using that as an excuse to justify a doctor caused abortion with a scalpel?

@Starkizzed21: Unfortunately, we know how he turned out and I'm using Hitler as an example for the debate with full knowledge of how he turned out. (You can't have your bread and eat it too.)

So, the point remains, no, not all life is precious. Society has no problem putting people who commit murder to death. If a poisonous snake was about to bite you, would you kill it? I hope you'll be honest enough to say yes.

Ok w the turtle egg thing... the blob of tissue has the DNA and all the genetic coding to make it a human being. Just saying, miscarriages are often unwanted. But if a lady got raped... should she go through with her pregnancy? What about incest? Should pregnancy go through? If a child gets pregnant (12 year old let's say) should her baby just be given away? I almost think that's more cruel,
I mean, killing of anyone, to me, sends them home. To heaven. Or wherever we come from (I do believe in some deep esoteric things k).

Rape.
Why punish the baby for the crime of the father? When did two wrongs make a right? THOUSANDS of American couples (dunno about other countries) are waiting to adopt and pay many thousands of dollars because of all the red tape and shortage of babies...why kill the baby when people would be blessed to raise it and love it?

Incest.
Same as rape, but with the added twist that the criminal is known and should be prosecuted and jailed.

And no, they stopped "just giving away" babies in this country about 100 years ago. The process to adopt is very stringent...too stringent in my opinion, but there is no "just give the baby away" happening.

Wait, am I reading you right?
Are you saying that it is better to kill the baby than for the mother, even at 12, to have her baby given away? As I just said, that doesn't happen anymore ("just give the baby away") but what kind of cruel black cold heart kills an innocent human child, their own baby, just because of...what? Age? Inconvenience? Embarrassment? What kind of sick society have we become? (don't answer that, I already know)

Hey, if you think that killing someone sends them to heaven and a better place, then I hope you don't profess to be Christian because that is NOT in the Christian Bible. Yes, we go to heaven if we have repented of our sin and placed our trust in Jesus Christ for salvation, but we go to hell for eternal punishment if we haven't repented. There's no free ticket to heaven for anyone.

And if you HAVE repented of your sin and placed your trust in Jesus Christ, then you know that you do not take your own life for any reason, because you are no longer your own, you belong to God and He decides what He will do with you and for you.

How do you know for sure what the deal is w souls and babies?

@Starkizzed21: sorry but youre saying only when it has a heart beat it is living? So trees and flowers are not living because they dont have a heartbeat?

@Firechidist: I am talking the points both sides are making. I do believe life is precious. Everything has its place and time. Everyone has lessons to learn.
Planned parenthood is not just an abortion clinic. It helps woman with other healthcare too. It is a personal choice. Some people make it for very hard decisions. Some people use it to avoid the consequences of their actions.
At what point is it crossing the line, and a bit of tissue or clump of cells is considered a human being?
That is one thing I don't have an answer for. The entire world is very much alive and seeds grow into beautiful things.
I do not agree that a child raped by a family member should have to go through a pregnancy. That would be cruel. What do you think?

@O-sure: @O-sure: carrying a baby to term for adoption has its own risks and complications. and the cost... if a woman lives in poverty she will give birth to a baby perhaps with health complications. So she should go through carrying, unhealthy as she is, just to have her baby adopted, and she might die giving birth because she has no access to adequate healthcare?

@Firechidist: Okay the definition of living, that's an important point. There is living as in a fire is "living" while burning. Living plants, living bacteria, living fungus, like mold. Animals live, but humans, they're different. Humans have an eternal soul and no other living entity has that.

So, when I say living, I am talking about alive as in eternally alive as in an entity with a soul.

Trees do not have souls. Dogs do not have souls. Frogs, no soul. Rose bushes, nope, no soul.

We sort of have to have some understanding of terms to be able to discuss things, yes?

@Starkizzed21: Carrying a baby to term for any reason has risks. Having sex has risks. Again I ask you a simple question: Why should the child be punished (death by scalpel dismemberment) because the mother is (a) lazy, (b) stupid, (c) drug dependent, (d) low income, (e) inconvenienced? Where does the majority of human history point to the answer? Life. Life until the 1960's was considered the ultimate gift, the most precious possession. Life was worth dying for. Life was more important than image, reputation, or the inconvenience of getting your drug-soaked ass sober. Why should it be different now?

Pre 1960's, the child's life was always more important than the mother's. In cases where the mother, or the child would die, medicine routinely gave the benefit of life-saving effort to the child. Why? No one ever really said it, but my understanding was that the mother had already had her life, whatever length it might have been, and now, out of love, she would step aside and let the baby have their chance.

It seems to me we aren't becoming better, more enlightened, or closer to truth, we're just getting more selfish and in love with our own desires.

Some have claimed that "love means never having to say you're sorry" but I think it's easy to see that true love is to give up your own life for another, like Christ did on the cross of Calvary.

@Starkizzed21: That old canard of "what if the baby grows up and _____" is plain silly. Think about it. When the baby is being born, you have no idea what the destiny of that child might be. Poor? My parents grew up poor, rock soup poor, as they enjoyed the dust bowl days of Oklahoma in a depression, yet they went on to retire very comfortably due to hard work on their part.

Where do you want to put yourself, or society, into God's position of deciding that "Well Billy Smith will suffer at the age of 12 from a horrible fire and burns over 75 percent of his body, so let him die in an abortion instead." Who are you, or the majority of society, to say that Billy Smith won't go on to live a full, satisfied life...with his burns? You can't, you don't know what will happen.

Just because it makes someone sound compassionate to say "Oh, they'll struggle and have nothing but pain and sorrow in life, so kill them now" is beyond silly. It's ridiculous. Look around you! Haven't you known people that had everything they wanted who could do nothing but complain about their sorry life? Have you never met someone who had little and had to struggle to get that but still walked through life with a smile and touching other's lives for good? I have!

A the point of birth, every life is a blank that only God knows the outcome of. Give life the benefit of the doubt and stop rationalizing the advantages of death.